42700+ entries in 1.09s
nubbins`: asciilifeform bush didn'
t have the smoking gun but he still went to iraq
nubbins`: it's so tiny so people won'
t stop betting.
adlai is fairly certain bitbet has been "mixing bets" for ~ever. isn'
t this how the whole "bitbet as tumbler" story was supposed to work? ie, the blockchain tells a different story than the addresses listed on the site
nubbins`: adlai i don'
t think that mixing bets like salad paints a prettier picture.
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 16:50:24; adlai: nubbins`: couldn'
t the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don'
t belong to s.bbet
nubbins`: don'
t make me dig up examples of bets that took a week to resolve
adlai: nubbins`: couldn'
t the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don'
t belong to s.bbet
☟︎ nubbins`: asciilifeform if i send $7,000 cash in the mail, i don'
t let the post office choose the delivery standard
nubbins`: PeterL i don'
t think you understand how this place works
dooglus: I suspect that's the client's fault - used to be that high-priority inputs meant you didn'
t need a fee
nubbins`: maybe mp shouldn'
t have put a personal expenditure on bitbet's books!
nubbins`: maybe bitbet shouldn'
t be sending 0-fee transactions when there's a massive mempool backlog!
nubbins`: can'
t simultaneously invent complicated lies and hold a convo
nubbins`: "to a non-overlapping set of nodes" -- aha! he's found an out that he hasn'
t used yet -- the nodes weren'
t overlapping now, see?!
mircea_popescu: let's move on to the next step. THEN, MP broadcast A2, which HAD a fee. to a non-overlapping set of nodes. the disjunction of the two sets had a perfectly valid txn they... also didn'
t broadcast, because magic reasons.
nubbins`: surely he couldn'
t just add the pubkey.
mircea_popescu: well... if it's not a bettor then "for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them" doesn'
t stick anymore.
nubbins`: yes, that's right, payouts are on indefinite hiatus because paying 9 cents tx fee isn'
t a solution
mircea_popescu: as it isn'
t, per your theory, the case that "Whole world saw". just the set in question.
nubbins`: dooglus i've been saying this since the first minute, but he just won'
t listen
dooglus: they won'
t tell you they saw it - it was 0 fee, so won'
t be relayed to anyone
dooglus: everyone you sent it to saw it. Didn'
t you broadcast it to ~100 nodes?
dooglus: the winners wouldn'
t have seen A1 vanish after 48h or whatever the mempool lifetime is; for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them
gribble: no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn'
t fill a hat.
nubbins`: ;;echo no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn'
t fill a hat.
PeterL: 0fee txn, nodes hold onto it (but don'
t rebroadcast), later when backlog is smaller they broadcast it
mircea_popescu: with any luck it'll be something like "miner cartel, what a ridiculous idea - not like the anon derps involved are a) known to be idiots and b) have certain incentive do do exactly this! moreover, the much simpler explanation is that... uh... uh... mp conspiracy! and scam! and fraud! and he doesn'
t care about bitcoin! and i'm an idiot that'll show him!!11"
nubbins`: i wouldn'
t put too much weight behind mp's bitbet experience
nubbins`: at any rate, being a 0a corp, the funds from B weren'
t bitbet's. regardless of who owned them.
nubbins`: dooglus it would seem that mp did it on his own accord. bitbet is a "zero asset" corporation, and thus doesn'
t own any capital; there was nowhere for a second 17btc to come from.
nubbins`: so it probably won'
t be delisted
nubbins`: not when the ceo makes a mistake on his own time, out of his own pocket, the company doesn'
t gribble: don'
t like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses
nubbins`: ;;echo don'
t like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses
mircea_popescu: PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn'
t a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it.
☟︎ gribble: don'
t like fraud? sell your shares
nubbins`: ;;echo "don'
t like fraud? sell your shares"
mircea_popescu: the shareholders can have all the legit complaints they want, about anything that happens whatsoever. we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya about our legit complaints that bitcoin doesn'
t work, and we would like it to, and it should be fixed by other people at their expense so we can continue our lifestyle undeterred. meanwhile - nonvoting shares can be sold, and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual
mircea_popescu: (imagine, as a subtopic, the wonder of computing if hardware came with guarantee "unless used for uinappropiate purpose" and then coders had to write code that didn'
t void any warranties.)
nubbins`: "You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don'
t give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do"
dooglus: but ... but ... the protocol is whatever core does! didn'
t you hear?
dooglus: this isn'
t creating the protocol limit of 2MB - that's elsewhere
hanbot: nubbins' what again? didn'
t you just bitch at someone over not giving a link to what they claim happened? take a breather, preferably a long one, and figure your own shit out. you're smelling.
nubbins`: <+hanbot>you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer? << you don'
t seem to get that me spelling the entire thing out again in long form is zero on my list of priorities, but i appreciate you switch-hitting for mp because it'd really look silly if he responded himself
dooglus: core doesn'
t like messages bigger than 2MB, and trb sends ~7MB messages
dooglus: I notice core won'
t talk to it for long before cutting it off
hanbot: nubbins' your projectile posturing isn'
t particularly useful. mp told you, i count two? three times? yest how to form your thoughts into something reviewable.
mircea_popescu: people didn'
t use to split coinbases because they preferred to sell them, for 103% or w/e.
nubbins`: danielpbarron why in the fuck would i do that? i'm not so cheap that i can'
t afford a dime for fees
nubbins`: given that miners who run node farms aren'
t fucking idiots, it seems implausible to assume that halting rebroadcast of lowest-priority tx's until the backlog is cleared is not a thing that would happen
davout: mircea_popescu: these weren'
t me
nubbins`: given that age is a factor in propagating tx's, it seems implausibly short-sighted to assume that miners don'
t keep a portion of their earnings untouched to build up age
davout: danielpbarron: just because Luke-Jr does it doesn'
t necessarily make it sensible
nubbins`: this doesn'
t preclude the fact that /any/ individual pool miner can have 10%, or 50%, or 100% of his daily take socked away immediately into long-term storage
nubbins`: why don'
t you see pool-mined blocks split the reward into a million outputs?
danielpbarron: if what i'm a part of isn'
t as big as my estimation, I don'
t care for bitcoin anyway. So whatever.
nubbins`: do you suppose any large-scale miner would be anything but a complete fucking idiot if they haven'
t been socking away a percentage of each block reward for use when old coins are needed?
nubbins`: also, don'
t change the argument into how feasible it is for a lowly shoemaker to pull it off
nubbins`: danielpbarron don'
t pretend to assume you know how many glass cannons i have
danielpbarron: nubbins`> again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1 << isn'
t this a "glass canon" as in, can only be fired once? How many nubbins` are out there with cannons? It costs money to assemble this weapon in short order. You have it from years of doing business.
nubbins`: don'
t insult your own intelligence
nubbins`: what bitbet payout recipient wouldn'
t want free coins
nubbins`: look: i receive A1 when it's first broadcast, i hold onto it but i DON'
T RELAY IT because my backlog is too big.
nubbins`: and i wouldn'
t even have to crack open two cold wallets
nubbins`: if there was 60 live nodes last year, it seems extremely improbable that a mining cartel wouldn'
t rent out a data center and stuff it with nodes
nubbins`: asciilifeform do note that collusion on tx relay nodes in the form of "don'
t broadcast 0-fee tx's if the mempool is > x" would explain observed behaviour
nubbins`: i could, as i've got an enormous amount of coins that haven'
t moved in a very long time
nubbins`: my node wouldn'
t have broadcast A1 until the backlog subsided
punkman: gotta explain why the 0fee tx wasn'
t visible in anyone's mempool for days, although I don'
t know how exactly mp examined the mempools and of which nodes he was connecting to
nubbins` is a bit surprised that more lords aren'
t concerned about mp's shame leading him to proposing an altcoin as the way forward
nubbins`: and "shouldn'
t work that way" does not mean the same thing as "did not happen"
danielpbarron: nubbins`, it looks like you're the one throwing a tantrum, and it "shouldn'
t work that way" is the general complaint in here against bitcoin for some time now. this event was more like the last straw kinda thing
nubbins`: weird that the chinese mining cartel revealing themselves hasn'
t affected the exchange rate
nubbins`: "little tiny bugs shouldn'
t be able to hurt a hyooman!"
nubbins`: all i see is mp and alf complaining loudly that sturles' node shouldn'
t work the way it does because it's improper
nubbins`: i tried putting it in simplified english for you, but it didn'
t take
nubbins`: "no, you don'
t get it, MY zero-fee transaction should have taken priority because reasons"
mircea_popescu: whatever. keep your ideas, i don'
t want them nor do they carry any value.
nubbins`: and nodes don'
t have to keep tx's "forever", we're talking two days max between rebroadcasts.
nubbins`: accepting but not advertising them -- isn'
t mircea_popescu: nubbins`> all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats << except the part where these nodes would also advertise it, which they didn'
t do. and except for the part where nodes that keep txn forever are am yth. and except for anything actually to do with reality, as opposed to some cartoon someone saw last year on tedspeak or w/e.
nubbins`: ("you don'
t get to say what the logic is! &c")
nubbins`: how ya figure, because the logic doesn'
t follow
danielpbarron: not people who want euros, so much as they ~don'
t want~ bitcoin, and don'
t want to touch actual fiat
danielpbarron: i don'
t see how a "mempool flood" should effect a high priority transaction.. or was the flooder sophisticated enough to have created all the inputs long ago so that they too would be high priority?
jurov: and miners haven'
t touched it?
danielpbarron: i guess this falls into the "well what the heck is the protocol, oh right there isn'
t one" category. How do you know a miner will choose a high fee tx over a high priority tx?
nubbins`: sure, if the mempool hadn'
t been olympic sized
nubbins`: "bitbet, where we don'
t have nine cents to spare"
nubbins`: "really proud of klye for [selling
t-shirts calling himself a fuckup in an attempt to recoup blistering losses from an earlier scam]"