log☇︎
36300+ entries in 0.023s
mp_en_viaje: "if there's really that many of them... where the fuck we gonna bury them all ?!"
mp_en_viaje: at which point the olteni are a little taken aback, and one guy in the 2nd rank whispers in boss' ear
mp_en_viaje: "but do you understand there's more than a billion chinese people living in peace bla bla bla ?"
mp_en_viaje: they send some people over, to negotiate. "why do you want to go to war with us ?"
mp_en_viaje: chinese folk spend a while trying to figure out wtf happened, eventually manage to spot this Oltenia on german wehmacht maps from the 1800s.
asciilifeform still has a... towel. that father bought in bucharest, where it came from china -- in contravention of sovok fatwa
mp_en_viaje: there's a small ethnic group in sw romania, "olteni". one day they declare war to china.
mp_en_viaje: do you know that joke btw, with the olteni and the chinese ?
mp_en_viaje: drove people up the fucking wall, "what the fuck is wrong with these people". warlike gnat...
mp_en_viaje: and much to caer/cominform despair, independently!!!
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:36 asciilifeform: y'know, back when there were ~2~ reichs handing out 'phree' ambulances
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:30 asciilifeform: the kind that is from orcistan to start with
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909699 << lotta these. the us shitversities exist principally through this orc anointment process these days. not that it'll last, but that's pretty much the last remaining octopus leg, not ablated yet. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: unions exist specifically because "it's not clear to us anymore that owning the machinery means owning the slaves attending the machinery" ; and i don' tmean clear to the slaves. i mean clear to the ~owners~.
mp_en_viaje: s not clear to us anymore how "makes the rules" flows from "brings home the bacon".
mp_en_viaje: the whole "i just want to" item is just an artefact of this same problem ; examtaking is just a manifestation of the same behaviour. the principal-agent problem is the same damned thing. the brokenness of domestic arrangements in the us flow from the very simple "it
mp_en_viaje: in the end, the relationship between capital and power is the principal bojum of ourdemocracy, however you turn it.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:29 asciilifeform: old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909696 << considering how fucking worried the pantsuits are about gifts (the whole "foundation" wank exists specifically to insulate them from the gifting etc), nobody is surprised trojan gifting'd be their principal outreach strategy. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:29 asciilifeform: old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909696 << considering how fucking worried the pantsuits are about gifts (the whole foundation" ☝︎
asciilifeform: worked a++, and that's with hand-cut cheapo plastic fiber.
asciilifeform: for that matter: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1693906 << slower ver. of same, pictured in live fire test of isolated fg. ☝︎
asciilifeform: dunno, i priced recently raw 6GB/s transceiver, was ~30bux ea.
mp_en_viaje: nor is it clear anyone did any serious work on them past 30 years.
mp_en_viaje: optics are quite not ready for deployment in this role
asciilifeform: i half-expected 1 or other would be trotted out when 'moor's law' dead. but turned out to be cheaper to simply tell konsoomer to suck it.
asciilifeform: there's half dozen or so 'golden toilet' processes.
mp_en_viaje: yeah there was a galena thing
asciilifeform: ( and that's on si. on e.g. gallium arsenide, even moar so )
asciilifeform: it's the champ, to date, of 'clock at any cost'
asciilifeform: ^ somewhere we had thread
asciilifeform: ( seekrit : emitter-coupled logic existed in '70s, worked up to ghz. but not cheap. )
asciilifeform: they had gigabit+ optic transceiver in '90 or so.
mp_en_viaje: possibly because for a long time the optic modems slow.
asciilifeform: for that matter, i still have nfi why said snake is copper, and not optic.
asciilifeform: incidentally 'cray' has this in 1980s. why pc bus had to wait 30 years to become 'snakeable', i have nfi.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. mp_en_viaje is not the 1st to notice the absurdity of plugging a 2kg, 200watt eater into pc mobo )
asciilifeform: '200fps' game fanatics, 'gpu shitcoin' mining people, etc. -- buy by the traincar
mp_en_viaje: lol that's an idea.
asciilifeform: sorta why some folx have taken to mounting'em ~externally~ (pcie spec allows for long snake)
asciilifeform: this is actual problem, for folx who dun like box to sound like 'hoover' , verily
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i'm not necessarily discussing the electricity draw ; but the thermic leak trough the connectors.
asciilifeform: it's why you pump air through the thing like vacuum cleaner neh
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 17:03 mp_en_viaje: the radeon things, yes, which is why they were never nearly as watt-efficient etc.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909764 << There was a window where the Radeons were much more efficient when it came to mining. Depended on the flavor of math getting fed to the card. AMDs loved the repetative bland stuff. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje even has old agp vidcards, they draw about 35-50.
asciilifeform: ( even nvidia's cards do not, they have hdd connector for +v )
asciilifeform: i dunthink i have anyffin in my boxes that draws whole 30w from pci
mp_en_viaje: even a 30w one has terrible effect on mobo lifetime.
asciilifeform: no melted caps, simply won't draw on 4096x4096 3d glass display at 200fps or what's the latest wankfad.
mp_en_viaje: (pro tip : diff between mobo without gpu and mobo with gpu is 3x lifetime.)
mp_en_viaje: i dunno i wanna melt my caps for this 50x slower thing tbh.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: very similar, how else. asciilifeform's observation was that even 'nvidia, but 50x slower cuz on fpga matrix, still suffices for reasonable gaming' , more like.
mp_en_viaje: not quite as similar as how alf-designed memory wouild be ; but more similar than ~anything else.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, to sum up this thread before it runs away from us : i expect that if you design your own gpu, and we compare it (through what, who knows, maybe by then phf comes up with a magical differ that woerks on circuit designs) to the top of the range efficiency gpus (~100% of them nvidia products, tho not 100% of the nvidia products) you'll discover they're very similar.
mp_en_viaje: the problem is tho, this doesn't even mean much. by the time tech corp hires senior techs on market, its name becomes hp and their name becomes carly fiorina, the future president of the us.
mp_en_viaje: yes, but they always hired entry level.
asciilifeform: fwiw nvidia's 'help wanteds' all seem to mention verilog.
mp_en_viaje: not like we have good words to discuss synthetically the subject matter. tho i'd very much like to.
mp_en_viaje: whereas this is, "squarier" however the fuck shall i say this.
mp_en_viaje: but the thing i interpreted that "tumour mass" you talked about to mean was this specific pattern, a sorta circular bundle.
mp_en_viaje: it just wasn't practical. and no i don' tmean "large rectangles".
asciilifeform: hand-sewing ups the nre cost ~100x.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lacking even photograph, i cannot pontificate in further detail re nvidia. but also do not automatically conclude on acct of 'faster than amd's' that it were hand-sewn.
mp_en_viaje: (note, i'm not even remotely saying 100% hand-made. but they had ~something~, that afaik was never found. and it sure as fuck wasn't just a software layer on whatever off the shelf verilogizer.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: erry die from z80 up has 'large rectangular' , them's the cache srams.
asciilifeform: it is entirely not the case that 'no one' hand-massages. but the items with 3bil+ transistors, it is rather impractical proposition to do this for.
mp_en_viaje: but they're rather more rectangular than the java-looking atrocities of intel.
mp_en_viaje: not so hard to decap a 1070 or w/e and looksee.
asciilifeform: these aint dirt on the lens, they're actually where it put the transistors.
asciilifeform: when you see 'tumour mass', that there's autorouter at work.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if you ever get hold of a die shot, it is possible to distinguish with naked eye, when 'compiled from rtl' and when 'hand-massage' . practical example of the former : https://s.zeptobars.com/baikal-Si.jpg
mp_en_viaje: and admittedly nvidia also had some shittier chips in this vein. but they also had a skunkworks core that did something that i dunno what it is.
asciilifeform: the last x86 product where they bothered to hand-massage transistor, was pentium1
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, nah, listen to me, there's a lot of ways to prove this, including the massive gap in efficiency between the competition and nvidia's chips
asciilifeform: ( their designs only ever exist as rtl, starting from 'pentium pro' )
asciilifeform: intel/amd -- known to use
mp_en_viaje: the radeon things, yes, which is why they were never nearly as watt-efficient etc. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 19:49 asciilifeform: asic is a high enuff risk biz that the people who do it, are conservative to the point of 'if this exact thing hasn't been done before, fughetaboutit'
asciilifeform: nao i did not walk in and see it used. but would be surprised to learn that it wasn't, the temptation is irresistible , on acct of sheer heft of the risk in the biz ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: afaick, that thing was never used.
asciilifeform: they're actually an off-the-shelf item, asciilifeform at one time nearly bought a 2ndhand unit
asciilifeform: they published a piece re the prototypetron.
mp_en_viaje: not even for prototyping, they had some inhouse thing i could never pin down
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i know for a fact that they do.
asciilifeform: ( it is interesting, imho, they ~could~ rearrange the cells , but do not, it requires skilled labour )
asciilifeform: this includes the konsoomer gpus.
asciilifeform: most of what's baked at e.g. tmsc, is 'verilog synthed' i.e. essentially same as fpga but w/ masked config bits.
asciilifeform: the # of folx who remember how to custom-draw transistors, is quite small.
mp_en_viaje: and what i'm saying is that any meaningful gpu will be very similar to extant items. i do not expect there is ~any meaningful overlap, from a purely graphical pov, between extant cpu and sane cpu.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, not necessarily a matter in those practical terms. a bike / ride-on lawnmower "suffices" as automobile, but it is still ~ridiculous~, specifically by the very poor fit of design to usage.
asciilifeform: ( ~suffice~ , rather than 'set speed records in guiness book' )
diana_coman: in rather insane bits, just counted the "parameters" of an actor entity in eulora's client and there's 40 of them without even counting that some of those are tuples.
asciilifeform: this is sorta the basic idea in e.g. ffa -- 'what's the simplest mechanism that will actually suffice'
asciilifeform: for 'i'm breaking codez and erry nanosecond counts' cannot replace custom matrix where you manually arranged transistors, no.
mp_en_viaje: hashing gpus are hard to replace. if you organize the misery from say dimm to say ipad cpus, gpus are kinda the next-notable node from dimm up.
asciilifeform: really one only needs 2 types of ic in the box , fpga and voltage regulators...
asciilifeform: ... for that matter, pretty much the entire 'iron babel' of nic, gpu, raid, etc
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:48 diana_coman: the whole C-thread reads... interestingly from the depths of planeshit client +crystalspace