355100+ entries in 0.238s
mircea_popescu: one can
think just fine in an alphabet, no need
to play
the egyptian priest.
mircea_popescu: now : i do not propose
that
this is either better, or obligatory for anyone else. whoever can fuck whatever bottle
they most like. but i also can't let stand
this
theory
that somehow obscurantist claptrap is
the only way
to
think.
mircea_popescu: if im stuck with reading some "maximum
thought" concoction i have
to spell it out and read it anyway.
ascii_butugychag: because we did not have any reason
to agree on
the hieroglyph.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu doesn't do mathematics,
this is evident. perhaps he did at one point, but not now.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths
that haven't been mechanized) << Prolly hard
to mechanize "Fear and
Trembling"
phf: presumably mp disagrees with iverson's "notation as a
tool of
thought" paper in principle
ascii_butugychag: and needs
to hold a MAXIMUM of
thought from
the page in his head
ascii_butugychag: but DEATH
to somebody who needs
to formally ~manipulate~
them.
ascii_butugychag: and yes, e.g., maxwell's equations stated verbally might be more pleasing
to a n00b
mircea_popescu: this "notationed" math is ALSO not math
that's been mechanised.
ascii_butugychag: philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths
that haven't been mechanized)
mircea_popescu: i'll
tell you
that i do prefer spellking out "sum x over y for i
to j"
than squiggling it up. heck, i have
the girls read out bash commands explaining what
they do.
guruvan: agreed BingoBoingo - it was a long year of much work, and much
that's just been
tossed by
the end of it
too
ascii_butugychag: will
take my maximally-compact notations from my cold, dead hands.
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2016 17:44:07; ascii_butugychag: find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on
this.
BingoBoingo: guruvan: Seriously. Wasn't much
to do in 2015 except lay groundwork for 2016
phf: but of course
there's
tons of companies
that have some variation of "breakup my
text into individual pictures of letters with precise x/y positioning, for extra points place
the nodes in a random order so
that
tools like pdftotext barf"
guruvan: thanks BingoBoingo - will be around more
this year :) - it's gonna be a crazy year
phf: pdf is ~plaintext~ container format
that lets you encode an hierarchical structure of nodes of
type.
there's a handful of standard node
types geared
towards fixed page layout.
there's also a handful of
types
that let you embed content, i.e. inline a binary blob <</Filter/FlateDecode/Length 10>>stream....10 bytes....endstream. latex produces pdfs with intimate awareness of
the format's abilities, i.e. sensible plain
text nodes
that
guruvan: BingoBoingo: classic - banning light clients is now censorship - I'll let who I like connect
to my nodes
tyvfm
mircea_popescu: the problems people encounter with statistics are probably
the most obvious place
to study
this issue.
mircea_popescu: because, obviously,
the problem of
translating between sets is untractable.
mircea_popescu: it is also fundamentally why math "is hard". for every non-retarded young adult who believes math is hard you have a case of a child who developed his own, highly personal set of shitty symbols, and
then never received a good explanation as
to what
the difference between his and "everyone else"'s is, so got lost.
☟︎ trinque: aha, seemed entirely psychological. "the mysterious symbols of
the world of mathematics! greek letters even!"
mircea_popescu: generally people
trying
to
think in
this particular sense
try and dope it.
mircea_popescu: trinque yet
the explanation is very simple : a certain set of brain circuitry is deeply involved in novel
thought (about everything, including mathematics) and at
the same
time refractary
to structure.
trinque: if a guy were
trying
to understand
the rationale behind using dense symbols in mathematics from
this conversation, he would fail.
ascii_butugychag: and i notice
that mircea_popescu links
to bitmaps of gurlz, not homeric descriptions in 10,000 words...
mircea_popescu: but i do not wish
to see
them, pray with
them, and so following.
mircea_popescu: let's make it plain :
the forum language will be alphabetic, not hieroglyphic. how you paint
the meaning from
the letters into little icons in your own livingroom - your problem.
ascii_butugychag: trinque: a good and necessary
thing in mathematics. but i don't want
to view
them with eyes!
trinque: still no reason put why using words and sexps is a good
thing in programming, a bad
thing in mathematics
mircea_popescu: find me actual working programmers
that want
to use static linked binaries. like it were 1970s MIT!
mircea_popescu: possibly
the only group left.
there's been some sort of strange deluge or something.
ascii_butugychag: find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on
this.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: just like everyone
tickles
the woman in random way in private.
this is math porn what you're proposing.
guruvan: saw
that - can hadly believe it's been so long since I've been in here
trinque: this is why urbit did
those glyphs or whatever
they called
them
ascii_butugychag: and i'm not interested in writing word 'nabla' instead of ∇ every
time !111
☟︎ trinque: ascii_butugychag:
there is python (or cursed rubby) which is "more compact" like your equation, yet I prefer lisp
trinque: and applies as easily
to C++ or any other hell
trinque: that statement does not make any argument for why
the seemingly arbitrary syntax of mathematics is good
ascii_butugychag: this is rather like asking why a heap of guts is
the correct interface for a surgeon but not a lover !
mircea_popescu: learn
to alphabet already, ya buncha "visual
thinker" illiterate louts!
mircea_popescu: hey ascii_butugychag are
those graphs pngs ? hm ? HM ?
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: mno. you are, for instance, using irc client, which is not same as
telnet, isn't showing you (or making you manually
type in)
the PING and PONG, say
mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen
to own a convenient interpreter for it << one. ONE.\
ozymandias_: If I can't dance, I don't want
to be part of your revolution.
mircea_popescu: <trinque> how bout math in ascii sexps? << pretty much
the only known solution
to his problem
trinque: wasn't
the original purpose of
the sexp *this* ?
trinque: no, why
the insane notation at all
ascii_butugychag: everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen
to own a convenient interpreter for it
mircea_popescu: just like i'm not interested in binary blob "signed"
text.
mircea_popescu: i'm allergic at
the notion of being fed it. i'm niot a printer.
ascii_butugychag: but iirc mircea_popescu is allergic
to
the whole notion of vector graphics for-printer
ascii_butugychag: 'if i cannot dance, i want nothing
to do with your revolution'
copypaste: except
the odd reader using IE6 of course!