log☇︎
354800+ entries in 0.237s
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> how about you drink benzene and talk to the stove. << haha
asciilifeform: the whole xml (actually sgml, the root of the disease) crock of shit was fundamentally an intellectual crime in that it set out by pretending that sexpr did not exist, that lisp never happened
mircea_popescu: it'd have failed even more miserably if god himself sat with budhha and fucked the actual shiva on that very table.
asciilifeform: it was a classical 'committee' thing.
mircea_popescu: the secret to winning the war isn't to make the other motherfucker die for his country. it's to discourage this motherfucking from thinking he can walk up the wall.
asciilifeform: the wrong people had a seat at the table.
asciilifeform: thing is, anything the xml folks did was doomed to be an act of retardation. because they ~were~ the wrong people.
mircea_popescu: how about you drink benzene and talk to the stove.
mircea_popescu: they tried the same sleigh of hand, basically. "oh, driving a vectorizer in a logical way"
asciilifeform: i'm half-convinced that naggum painfully killed himself to pay for xml.
asciilifeform: (in .MOD, instrument patches are part of the file)
mircea_popescu: "as the xml bozos taught us, to much grief"
asciilifeform: i.e. you would embed the glyph, if it is a non-traditional one, and represented as an s-expr driving a vectorizer
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not prepared for this matter to get a ruling.
asciilifeform: but in point of fact glyphs ought to work like amiga .MOD music file format.
asciilifeform: eh that's easy
mircea_popescu: you can't finite the infinite arbitrarily.
asciilifeform: finite includes the symbols of cultured men
asciilifeform: in fact, this is exactly the kind of error that gave us xml
asciilifeform: as the xml bozos taught us, to much grief
asciilifeform: y'know, just because you force the 8th bit of every bt to 0 doesn't make it 'human-readable'
mircea_popescu: the reason we spend so much ink on this is that it is in fact the biggest problem we met yet.
mod6: I guess this does actually effect us a bit -- i mean, lets say we wanna do some math modeling or expound upon some properties of something fourier whatever, and send it to the ML... now you gotta have it in ascii otherwise you can't sign it.
asciilifeform: takes an expert entomologist to distinguish the result
mircea_popescu: guy had a (rather transparent) profit motive.
mircea_popescu: nah, those are just idiots, the lacan troop were actual trolls.
asciilifeform: lacan et al made the exact same kind of salad from words
asciilifeform: 'tenser, said the tensor' (tm) (r) (bester)
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "a tensor" << haha, i missed this
mircea_popescu: and then you wonder why idiot anglos have "issues" with word problems.
mircea_popescu: i bet you they all grew up as kids among a herd of wolves worshipping the symbol, never once thinking to make them write it down in words.
asciilifeform: they are driven by what the broken pieces are that they find to glue into mosaics, are of.
mircea_popescu: the heresies of barbarians are not accidental, but driven by fundamental stupidities of their culture.)
mircea_popescu: (they focus on the domain and fail to comprehend the limit. it's how we neded up with the power rangers in the first place.
mircea_popescu: the "symbolized" math thing makes kids stupid
mircea_popescu: so then what the bloody hell.
mircea_popescu: i couldn't care less you use sigma or the integral. what matters is the foreword
mod6: something like that? im not really only saying verbal. im just saying, hey, lets practice safe ascii.
mircea_popescu: and for the record : NO THEOREM, no rule or function or anything in ALL OF MATH can survive without the [usually more important] limits and domain definition.
mircea_popescu: "a tensor"
asciilifeform: mod6: now verbalize a tensor.
mod6: and then when it doesn't there's alway some short hand one could do without resorting to unicode or PS.
mod6: it just seems like stuff like this works well: <+mircea_popescu> For any smooth, simple closed positively oriented curve in a plane, if two functions are defined on any open region containing the area bounded by that curve, should those functions have continuous derivatives in the region then the integral over their sum is the integral over the region's integration of their differential.
mircea_popescu: did you or did youi not type ABS(x dx) in derive until you dropped!
asciilifeform: mod6: visit a university library and read the atrocious typewriter manuscripts.
mircea_popescu: no fucking way, this isn't how derive worked!!11
mod6: i like the idea that we could have a regular char set, like 127 bit ascii, and do everything from this. and if you need Sigma, its SIG, or LAMBDA, its LMA or Absolute Value, ABS.
mircea_popescu: but this is not the point!
asciilifeform: that doesn't make user want to eat his pistol ?
asciilifeform: can you picture a computeralgebratron that eats english ?
asciilifeform: (vs a kid asked to prove that he hadn't cribbed.)
asciilifeform: the canonical representation that is to be worked with by a serious user.
mircea_popescu: so then... what are we on about!
asciilifeform: ought to include even building rubber band model.
mircea_popescu: you know this is so. you know it distinguishes the pass from the cheat.
asciilifeform: now this, yes
mircea_popescu: is to hold up a piece of exam paper and say "now explain to me what's in here".
mircea_popescu: let me put this another way : the first, the cheapest and most formidable weapon every science teacher has to ferret out the cheat
asciilifeform finds himself mentally converting this to proper format !11
mircea_popescu: how's that.
mircea_popescu: For any smooth, simple closed positively oriented curve in a plane, if two functions are defined on any open region containing the area bounded by that curve, should those functions have continuous derivatives in the region then the integral over their sum is the integral over the region's integration of their differential.
asciilifeform is watching the scrolling logs from his trb nodez, it is like music, so smooth
asciilifeform: nothing immediately usable. might take another stab at it on the train tomorrow
mircea_popescu: i don't see this emerging other than by piecemeal correction, honestly.
asciilifeform: i tried to write it, actually, and ran out of juice
asciilifeform: speaking of this & earlier thread, a treatise on 'v' philosophy is definitely a necessary thing
mircea_popescu: and he still wants a proof because the log is not here or something
mircea_popescu: half the fucking things i do here each day and every day is exactly that, force people to properly plaintext their shit.
asciilifeform: if i have to be shiva, mircea_popescu can be a racehorse!111
mircea_popescu: what do you think i am, a race horse ?
mircea_popescu: then you with this
mircea_popescu: that dude goes hey, rewrite this chunk of the english cannon, it is broken
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu posts the plaintext rigorous green's theorem, i promise to read it..
mircea_popescu: or else make the thing plain text and sort it in your head like a functioning brain already.
mircea_popescu: yes, and your option is to either do a retarded sort of implicity tree by using hyeroglyphicd
asciilifeform: your head is a finite thing.
asciilifeform: there is such a thing as fits-in-head
asciilifeform: merchant of venice != theorem
asciilifeform: just like you can brag about being a muscle man, but i can always fill a knapsack that you cannot move with, so you cannot say 'it does not matter what a knapsack weighs!111'
mircea_popescu: do you think i presently notated the merchant of venice so 3555 liunes fit in one page ?
asciilifeform: and if your working memory is titanic and you laugh, all that is needed is to come up with an example that straddles the line ~for you~
mircea_popescu: my brain doesn't work by thje eyefull iom not a fucking toad omfg
asciilifeform: it isn't about magical force of squiggle, but elementarily FITTING A THING ON A PAGE that would not otherwise fit in one eyeful.
mircea_popescu: there's no particular boon to understanding to be had from squiggling.
mircea_popescu: there's plenty of squigglies in physics too. i never much cared.
asciilifeform: or what, mircea_popescu would've stayed in mathematics if not for the squigglies
mircea_popescu: yes, actually. i generally said this si fucking stupid and you people suck.
asciilifeform: didja ever walk up to the author, and ask 'why didntcha do plain text like euclid'
mircea_popescu: machine written for text and then hand drawn for symbolics
mircea_popescu: yeah i had a raft of that retarded shit too
mircea_popescu: what can i tell you.
asciilifeform: inked in the integral signs.
asciilifeform: EVEN THERE folks laboured to ascii-art the sigmas etc.
asciilifeform: relatedly, i spend a great deal of time in uni maths library. to this day. and every so often i end up picking up a thing that was typeset on the cheap, in the dark ages, using typewriter
asciilifeform: my position was 'maths can only adequately happen on a graphical terminal'
mircea_popescu: be the scotsman with a parasol, what do i care.
mircea_popescu: i'm not telling you how to grasp things, you're the one that keeps going "no true scotsman would go around without a parasol" or w/e.
asciilifeform: typically the only way any of it makes a difference to me is between grasping and not-grasping a thing.
mircea_popescu: dude get out. there's 7 bn people alive today, not to mention historically, and you think having twenty or a hundred slices of tp makes a difference ?
asciilifeform: during the course of ONE SHIT.