log☇︎
4000+ entries in 0.002s
mp_en_viaje: i dunno, sometimes i think 2018 was spent doing a LOT of drugs, i can remember it like hippies can remember the 60s
mp_en_viaje: well... actually it might not be it, it might be only reference to the it, but i am intellectualy exhausted by now
mp_en_viaje: a yes! that's it ty
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: there's the statement as such that positive loops are just another name for death
mp_en_viaje: there's a trilema somewhere explaioning how positive feedback loops are the only dangerous thing in nature, but...
mp_en_viaje: much like any other drug addiction, by supressing the wrong pain signals (which is what it set out to do, guido van dorkum's idea was exactly this, if coding weren't painful more people would -- yes, but BADLY) it produces positive feedback harmful loops.
mp_en_viaje: it's like terraforming for failure.
mp_en_viaje: and it's not ~the language~, either. there's nothing magically great about "how it handles conditioanls", "if($2 != day) is not god's own notation or anything LIKE that. it's that python breeds and fits upon and further breeds and further fits upon the sort of thought process that'll produce the sort of thing that fails.
mp_en_viaje: it keeps coming up, and it's always in this context.
mp_en_viaje: before coming up due to portage it came up due to flask ; and after portage it came up due to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954347
dorion_road: python primarily comes up due to portage. Gales uses a shell script based package manager, so the point about bash will get further practical consideration as that gets explored.
mp_en_viaje: i dunno i support any particular action on the foregoing basis. but i also ain't gonna pass it in silence no mo.
mp_en_viaje: well at the very least known about.
dorion_road: the string ought be pulled then.
mp_en_viaje: this'd be to my mind the string holding pantsuit online together : python, wikipedia & wediditreddit.
dorion_road: mp_en_viaje makes sense, thanks for laying it out.
mp_en_viaje: i am not proposing bash is good ; but i made a point of it in that context because i believe it is in this respect opposite. it has all the ills naggum finds it, yes, but it does not have that one thing that produces pete dushenskis out of otherwise promising young men.
mp_en_viaje: i don't think it's him ; i think it's the damned python.
mp_en_viaje: but i do mean ~very~ bad. fractally bad, it even gives them the impression they have been. without prejudice to lobbes, look at his experience, not necessarily just since sept.
mp_en_viaje: no, python is a tool built so as to permit the unready to write very bad code.
dorion_road: python is then not available to meaningful examination because it has been exam taking and pretending to be ready (e.g. usg.mit now uses it instead of scheme), rather than actually making itself ready for human use.
diana_coman: fwiw I wanted to add precisely ^ .
mp_en_viaje: the problem with this argument of course is that it can be applied quite well to A LOT of the things we use ; most notably c++. but it's at the core, i suspect, if unexpressed, of why nobody ever pushed for say c#.
mp_en_viaje: hence the link relating it to wikipedia recently that now of course i can't find. basically what it does seems to me in any and all particulars based upon the forwarding of the "group action" agenda of the only evil in this world ; much like the republic's in all workings promoting itself python's in all its workings first supporting the enemy.
mp_en_viaje: my objection is that foremost and before being any other thing, python is a tool for the wilfully stupid.
mp_en_viaje: this having progressed unchecked for lo these many years, the principal problem of the republic is dealing with organized stupidity. this is a lot like any other cleaning job, because yes there's no difference between the filth that supports vermin infestations and the "collective action" that supports the marauding idiots.
mp_en_viaje: they'd like to be ready, see. they just... aren't. and because people are perverse, this tends to manifest rather as exam taking than actual improvement. they don't become any ready-er, they just become adept at pretending they are.
mp_en_viaje: now there are three groups : the ready, the willing unready, and the dumb unready. in more traditional terms the middle class is denoted as organized stupidity.
mp_en_viaje: practically this enacts another partition, nietzsche's will.
mp_en_viaje: now, people as a particular class of living things are perverse (this is called "intelligence" in pantsuit gospels), meaning they also have a recursion built in there.
mp_en_viaje: i'd say the most interesting partition available upon "living things" is whether they are ready. there's the living things that are, and the living things that aren't. hence that whole discussion of http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/
mp_en_viaje: the job of gnoseology, the collected product of thought, is to enact partitions, and record them. some of these are more interesting than others, as illustrated through experience ; an examined life is exactly this "following phenomena while aware of the partitions list"
mp_en_viaje: ever heard / seen someone say "bring it" ? as in you know, the challenge, there's some kinda threat an' the response is... bring it
dorion_road: good question. the problem of maintaining a hierarchy of indivdual agents.
mp_en_viaje: dorion, i wouldn't. let's use the call-and-response format for this. so, what would you say is the problem the republic's formed to resolve ?
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:25:02 mp_en_viaje: anyways, i have serious reservations about anything-python. it's the first time for me, i never thought before a lang is basically the satan ; but it seems to me anything derived off python's going to be stupid, for that reason.
dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954799 << hmm. I know python is discussed at length in various log threads, for the sake of clarity, would you mind summarizing the most important marks against it ?
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:08:15 mp_en_viaje: if trinque fails to work within the framework (which yes, DOES mean jan 15th is a firm deadline, not because you made it so or could, but because i can, and do), and nobody gives a shit about cuntoo, everything that was thereby lost is upon trinque to pay.
dorion_road: heh. I got that, noting the general principle.
mp_en_viaje: wasn't talking about you there, lol, but yeah.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 11:31:41 dorion_road: Right now my approach is to draw from the experience with cuntoo and gales and understand : what strengths can be taken from both, what do they both lack that tmsr os requires.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:07:06 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954750 << to be perfectly clear, i'm not at all inclined to lend support to this sort of misbehaviour. young man has no excuse to act like a cunt, "oh, hurr durr, LET OTHER PEOPLE". by and large, if he's not here to work his shit, nobody cares about his shit.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-11 03:11:06 mp_en_viaje: ha, that's a point huh.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/server1-hotelmoskva-rs/ << Trilema -- server1.hotelmoskva.rs
diana_coman: it is really because that's the start but then it gets discussed and the different values talked about and so on; so yes, I for one would very much prefer to have an article as ref.
mp_en_viaje: i suppose i should prolly write a proper article about this, seems it's unhelpfully all over the logs ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:06:31 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : hey trinque, now that there's actually multiple functional castles the time's prolly come to update the deedbot voice model into awareness of this situation. so how about a patch making voice in #trilema dependent on ~my~ wot, rather than deedbot's own ; and similarily in any castles that ask for it / you come to an understanding with the lords thereof, so they can use the voice model there if the
diana_coman: now I see it; I read depedent on ~my~ wot and I didn't get it was just moving the centre but keeping the l2 as well, hm.
mp_en_viaje goes to re-read also, by now it's bee na while
mp_en_viaje: iirc that was discussed re flexibility for ~other~ chans, which is how the 9 came about, "just don't rate people 9 if you don't want a l1/l2 in your chan"
diana_coman: if that's the case, then there is no problem indeed since yes, they would still be able to self-voice for sure; in my mind it was that only your l1 can self-voice, hm.
diana_coman goes to re-read the new self-voice model, maybe missed something.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i thought the model was that those rated by my as 9 are on the list of ratings deedbot looks at to establish l2
mp_en_viaje: for the other thing, the original reason the thing was set to auto-devoice in 30 minutes was to avoid the burden of hostility upon the devoicer, and the situation of voice inflation, where randos have it just as good as actual people, like thios were athens or something.
diana_coman: or at any rate, those rated by you.
diana_coman: what do you want me to rate them as?
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: ugh, what??? the new model is that only those rated by you with 9 can self-voice, no?
mp_en_viaje: so for one thing, if you're not willing to rate them enough so they can voice, why should they idle here ?
diana_coman: rather than 30 minutes thing.
diana_coman: alternatively I suppose the !!up could be perhaps permanent ie until a !!down
diana_coman: they won't be able to self-voice and then what, someone has to voice them every hour or they end up kicked to one of the other chans?
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: the only potential trouble I see with your proposed model is when the new voice model is implemented since my pageboys will not be able to hang around here at all anymore.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I don't mind it or anything; tbh only the other day I had a look at the list of names and picked RubenSomsen to pm & he got at least in #ossasepia, presumably still reading now through the mountain of links he ended up hit with.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: ahaha; and designer overalls, lmao; the exquisite sheep worming attiree.
mp_en_viaje: so specifically trinque is this feasible iyo ? and everyone else also, is an hour too short a time ? other comments ?
mp_en_viaje: this'll prolly need management in the sense that i suspect the banlist is limited, so after a few of these it'd be stuck expiring the oldest ban to enact a new one, meaning it'll need a round buffer of them.
mp_en_viaje: so what i'm thinking is, what if deedbot set a ban on any nick it sees unvoiced for >1hr, setting the forward channel alternatively #ossasepia and #trilema-hanbot on it ?
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in linear improvements : i'm thinking of setting up #trilema to forward the useless / idle / etcetera to the feeder chans. apparently freenode has support for this, in that in setting a ban one can also specify a channel wherein the banned to be dumped.
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2019-10-15 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-14#1006282 - heh, how long until they register a key and find their way in here?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-11 00:44:23 mp_en_viaje: it seems self-evident their plan as it stands is missing the 4th and final ingredient of churchly success, "and this is the congregation", but that can be discovered in time
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-11#1954893 - heh, my first line on hearing of the training they give their clients was precisely how long until they find their way to here
mp_en_viaje: ha, that's a point huh.
jfw: But possible that's because I've been in crazed orclands longer
mp_en_viaje: dat midwestern stock, apparently they can live through anything.
jfw: No derangement that I was able to detect.
mp_en_viaje: how derange did BingoBoingo end up, after years in the crazed orclands btw ?
mp_en_viaje: take yer time
jfw: mp_en_viaje: thanks for those blog comments btw, looking forward to a proper read + catching up on the juicy looking log here in the coming days. I see dorion_road's and my venture was discussed just above; I'll give him the first word as I believe he's more up to date here.
deedbot: jfw rated trinque 2 << Knowledgeable on system administration, Lisp, Bitcoin. Develops & operates deedbot, holding its wallet keys. Writes occasionally at trinque.org.
deedbot: jfw rated asciilifeform 2 << Stanislav Datskovskiy, loper-os.org, seeks the Right Thing in all matters even if it would take ten lifetimes. Has honored promises in commerce in my experience.
deedbot: jfw rated diana_coman 5 << ossasepia.com, long-time Trilema scholar, develops Eulora, knowledgeable on computing, writing & other topics; committed to seeing things for what they are & solving the right problems. My mentor & Master at Young Hands Club.
deedbot: jfw rated BingoBoingo 3 << Aaron Rogier: bingology.net, qntra.net, moved abroad to start ISP, knowledgeable on diverse topics, responsible custodian of computing equipment. Met in person Dec 2019.
deedbot: jfw rated mircea_popescu 5 << Father & overlord of the Most Serene Republic. Reads ~everything worth the mention and writes in abundance at trilema.com.
mp_en_viaje: and yes, as it happens there DOES exist exactly one jurisdiction where they can move to, after being betrayed by all the toy pretend-states.
mp_en_viaje: the actual important part is that "the industry" is looking for recovery after the whole "panama papers" etc circus.
trinque: most importantly they're rolling in cash.
trinque: they're using shockingly primitive accounting tooling, shockingly primitive processes for e.g. wire authorizations and all the rest
trinque: at any rate, folks that are handling money overseas for clients are obviously a target.
mp_en_viaje: not like you have to be!
trinque: see, I'm the fucking misogynist over here!
mp_en_viaje: if want the bitches to express themselves or not express themselves, in the end ? it's gotta be one, can't be both.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 19:24:08 trinque: nicolewhatever: and by the way, repeating your master's opinion for him says very little. I heard him; he doesn't need you going "ayyyyyy", but good girl all the same.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954818 << this "he doesn't need you" thing is such nonsense. i also don't need any other of the things, what the hell, since when it's a needs-based economy.
mp_en_viaje: anyways, it seems all very neoprotestant ("compile your own bible out of letters found around the house!!) which my rather catholic description doesn't do justice to. but it's just summary, i don't mean to rule by misrepresentation.
mp_en_viaje: i guess they explain this when they wake up.
trinque: I bet all that's shockingly primitive
mp_en_viaje: it seems self-evident their plan as it stands is missing the 4th and final ingredient of churchly success, "and this is the congregation", but that can be discovered in time
trinque: where do they keep the records though.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, that's what they seem to be doing, "here's the hardware, here's the mental floss slash bible, here's the daily prayers rules regulation and prayerbook", a complete package like that.
mp_en_viaje: my understanding is that they're basically fixing that : giving the guy the laptop's evidently not enough (i gave mine one when i left ro), it needs to be supported culturally / with habits, mental and otherwise