345900+ entries in 0.194s
mod6: you buy a flash rom (from S.NSA? or from local place you
trust??)
then get V, build a flashable universe, flash
the card, drop it into some device and
then you can
talk
to it over some wire from your work station
mod6: i
think it could be pretty neat, in
the end.
mod6: eh, sorry: does
the idea of a flashable universe built from rotor still make sense.
mod6: does anyone else
think
that
this is *not* a decent consideration at least? even
taking into consideration
the issues we ran into with pogo?
mod6: yah, i still
think
this might be a resonable path. but lot of
thought still must go into
this whole
thing.
tonight was a great discussion on it
tho.
mod6: asciilifeform: so are we basically, with rotor, able
to not only build a static bitcoind, but couldn't we also build a flashable rom
that contains said static binary - a flashable universe so
to speak?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing converges if
the path
to convergence is expensive.
mod6: sure,
the whole: 1, 2, inf. problem.
mircea_popescu: understand mod6 :
the
thing
that scared me above isnm't per se
the fact
that now we need 4, but
that well... it grew. might be we're sitting on some unbounded complexity / a loose recursion
tail.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so you added
tinyscheme
to have sexpr rather
than json, and now you
telnet into scheme ?
ben_vulpes: this is a wonder i would greatly like
to see myself
mircea_popescu: mod6 in
the end we'll need a v
thread for
the source, one for
the manual, one for linux make one for bsd make etc ? like 4 ?
ben_vulpes: how does
tinyscheme couple into ri source?
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:15:49; mircea_popescu: dude speaking of "provability" bs. FSB are "provably secure" because it can be proven
they're at least as hard as regular syndrome decoding. which is np complete. while we don't actually know if
THAT is in fact resolvable in polynomial
time or not, nevertheless... PROVEDLY SECURE!!11
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 02:36:26; asciilifeform:
tinyscheme welded onto
trb
mircea_popescu: but riddle me
this : how does user know his openbsd make process isn't satan's own ?
mod6: yeah, for now. seems
the most viable approach.
mircea_popescu: so basically my
tentative
takeaway here is
that we'll mostly
try
to maintain broad linux-compatibility and
try and help interested parties keep
the wheels oiled and
turning on stuff like bsd.
mircea_popescu: (or from a security perspective, esp
the cpu and memory)
mircea_popescu: polarbeard most of
those will have
to be written de novo, basically. esp
the filesystem.
polarbeard: how do you
talk with
the cpu, memory, network, disk?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i guess most of
the problem comes from
that chasm. we're not
the first
to meet it.
mod6: right. exactly similar
to
this.
mod6: its a
thing, it gets flashed on
to some firmware, and it basically just is, you can
talk
to it and use it, but it is its own
thing.
polarbeard: bitcoinos would be based on what? I
think
that's
the interesting part
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is ifdefs REALLY
the only way
to do
this ?
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 here's
the problem with "Bitcoinos" : you will want it adapted for bitcoin needs, which necessarily means it won't be your
tool of choice for doing almost anything else, which necessarily means maintaining it will be a pain in
the ass. << agree. I
think
that what I'm getting at is maybe it ends up being like cisco ios.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be a shitton cheaper
to not need a vm layer if at all avoidable ?
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 00:00:44; BingoBoingo: So next year will be 3 months
to sync, 2018 4 months, 2019 5 months etc.
mircea_popescu: so i'm not
terribly interested in
that line of
thought.
adlai: mircea_popescu: ever heard of 4th gen ATMs? (not
the kind
that gets skimmed)
mircea_popescu: see,
that';s
thje bitch here : missile guidance has
to be on missile and
there only.
there's no benefit from it running on jane's computor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but
this faces you with
the unpleasant choice of whether
to not play
tetris or not run bitcoin on your homebox.
adlai also got an upfront btc donation
to do
this so ~shrug~
adlai: asciilifeform: because large amounts of data are worth paying small amounts of btc
to immortalize,
today; and small amounts of data will always be worth paying large amounts of btc
to immortalize - even
tomorrow.
mircea_popescu: im not making any calls here, just running
the horse around
the field.
mircea_popescu: mod6 here's
the problem with "Bitcoinos" : you will want it adapted for bitcoin needs, which necessarily means it won't be your
tool of choice for doing almost anything else, which necessarily means maintaining it will be a pain in
the ass.
mod6: so we may
think of a different way of doing something like
this, maybe it's not a full OS of sorts, maybe its a embedded deal.
adlai: the general goals being - get
the data in
there, as cheaply as possible, without same standards as
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490 and some reasonable method
to random-access without having
to reconstruct
the entire
turd
mod6: i guess my
thought is, if we wanna make bitcoinos - we will end up forking either SVR4 or BSD, and
then getting married.
mircea_popescu: mod6
to my mind it's almost as if we bit a recursion girder over here. "v presses source". "ok how do i build it ?" "uh... i guess you need a v-make genesis and follow
that for your os." "ok... how do i do
that ?" "well... get v-make-make and..."
mod6: yeah, very much so. a good conversation
to have
though, as our future roadmap depends on some early-on food for
thought.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i suppose
this entire compatibility general issue will need more
thinking about.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah
the part where your otherwise reasonable idea breaks down is where deedbot is not really a webservice
adlai notes
that a) archive.is works for backup b) deedbot provides verification alone c)
the blockchain works for paranoid-max backup, if you pay your way
BingoBoingo: If reddit is
to be denied links so ought
they.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So
that I don't have
to link fiat uni web sites.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo srsly why are you putting your uni library in
the deedbot.
mircea_popescu: phf you seriously considering maintaining a bsd rotor
thing ?
mircea_popescu: and so
then bsd support, like windows or crapple support, would be a bolt-on ?
mircea_popescu: and so what, we're officially
targetting "anything
that's unix post bsd pre systemd" ?
mircea_popescu: "bitcoinos" is a symbol here. may mean linux, whatever
the fuck it means.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if someone has a box
that
they're using,
they can't run a bitcoin node
there unless
they run it under bitcoinos ?