343300+ entries in 0.23s
phf: adlai: i have no idea what you're
trying
to say
adlai: slime's repl and inspector contribs are
the most relevant bits
adlai: phf: comint (and slime's maximal comfort zone) is for interacting with inferior processes
that emacs spawn
ascii_butugychag: current
thing is useless for swank
though because it spins up a fresh lisp for each connection
phf: is
the approach
to spin up
thread/socket on
trb side? current "telnet" could be extended
to swank protocol
ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag:
these lisp
tentacles are rather spiffy
phf: i briefly looked at writing a backend for pre-shiva
tinyscheme, but it lacks network ports
phf: there are slime backends for schemes,
the one for mit/scheme locs 800, but probably includes inspect and support for restarts, which are not needed for poc
ascii_butugychag: (sussman and abelson were
the creators of scheme, authors of sicp, and
taught
the course)
adlai: ascii_butugychag: might be smoother sailing
to start off from comint-mode and work upwards, rather
than
trying
to fit slime onto so different a backend
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 11:31:05; punkman: ideally
turdatron would press all
the possible HEADs and let us see
them in lxr
mod6: aight, i better get me some lunch
to soak up
this coffee. bbs.
adlai: maybe
they didn't use
the words 'fungible' and 'cog', but it was justified as what junior devs need
to pass interviews
adlai: this was literally
their justification
adlai: mod6: new-MIT decided
that s/scheme/python/ would welp more fungible cogs
mircea_popescu: this is like saying
that
the nignog "egyptians" abolishing
the pyramids is "something
they created"
mod6: ascii_butugychag: interesting
they would abolish
teaching something
they created.
mircea_popescu: (different field, but same principle - you
to
this day can't beat literature as read at oxford cca 1880ish, just like you can't really beat it from mit cca 1960.
the latter branch is obvious here, but
the former'd be just as obvious in a literature-powered ba)
ascii_butugychag: mod6: i mark
the demise of mit as
the moment when
they abolished
the sicp course
mircea_popescu: just like oxford used
to matter at some point in its history.
mircea_popescu: mit used
to be a very respectable institution, merely a few decades ago.
ascii_butugychag: adlai: 'a slime' in
the sense of plugging an emacs session straight into
the interpreter, with 'eval-region', 'eval current sexpr', as well as separate pane with repl, etc.
mod6: thats
the one 'eh.
thx guise.
adlai: ascii_butugychag: yes, i've been following along quietly. not sure what you mean by "a slime", literally interpreted
this is rather meaningless as most of
the swank-backends is highly CL specific stuff... i guess you mean a less literal interpretation :)
adlai: (head .
tail) === (car . cdr) etc
adlai: mod6: you're already making lisp jokes, even if you don't get
them yet!
ascii_butugychag: mod6: fortunately it is
the world's simplest, possibly, usable language
mod6: i've gotta
take a crash course in scheme very quickly or I won't be able
to make heads or
tails out of
these code submissions. eek!
mod6: im just excited
to use something called 'sexpr'
mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought
to be able
to apply ANY well-defined operation << quite
this,
tho we might have
to get
there in steps.
punkman: well
that'd be a fun rabbit hole
mod6: <+ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought
to be able
to apply ANY well-defined operation << ok sure,
this could be a separate feature of V i guess... have
to
think on
this.
punkman: ascii_butugychag: how would we shorten
the retabbing?
mod6: yup, eventually
this could be a
thing
though, if we build our own
tool
ascii_butugychag: ideally a vtron ought
to be able
to apply ANY well-defined operation
punkman: comments work in gnudiff
too
mod6: as far as comments in
the vpatch
that are mearly just for archaeological or annotative purposes, i
think something could be done here especially when we get our own diff/patch.
ascii_butugychag: if had moar
time, would write beautiful illuminated manuscripts, sure.
mircea_popescu: you do a miserable job of comments, btw.
the
thing with "only four bit state" has its disadvantages.
ascii_butugychag: i posted probably
the most kB of unusable but validly signed crapolade
to
the ml
mod6: not
to worry about your signed genesis
tho - i gardened it out.
the mirror just has
the right one.
BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag>
thestringpuller: sacrifice a goat
to satan << It's heretic apple, gotta sacrifice satan
to a goat since woz is gone.
ascii_butugychag: but in point of fact,
the v-chain aspect prevents a mistake from catastrophically breaking
the world
mircea_popescu: so at
the least a hook for human debugging
to save us from cold equationism IS provided.
mircea_popescu: this way
the human gardener can review and arbitrate
the matter and i (at least hopefully) won't get negrated for it breaking shit.
mircea_popescu: now, one obvious solution (wasn't obvious
to me at
the
time what it was a solution
to) is
to INCLUDE COMMENTS in
the patches, like i did with my only signed patch i didn't really intended as part of a final pressing
mod6: hehehe. interesting
thoughts here
today. i need
to
think on
this stuff.
mod6: i wonder if we couldnt find 'the right ones' with some sort of merkle
tree
that represents
the best chain.
mircea_popescu: so have i. which is what makes
the conicidence interesting.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: well magicprefs is
throwin an error (has a
triangle with exclamation mark in
the
top bar)
ascii_butugychag points out
that he has been
thinking about vtronics for a VERY long
time.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 13:27:00; asciilifeform:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not,
the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on
the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of
the vtree is a perfectly fine
thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists
to
take all of
the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtree
mircea_popescu: (for one
thing : if IT could find
the right ones, add
that
to gossipd and we have essentially built passive autonomous system software, ie,
the evil ai.)
mircea_popescu: or
to put it in different
terms : currently
the V is equivalent
to a version of bitcoin where YOU are responsible for downloading blocks. it WILL verify
them and form a chain,
ascii_butugychag: (and, as i explained very early on, cycled are an error, and anyone attempting
to introduce a graph cycle deserves a good
thrashing)
mircea_popescu: a)
the presser might disagree and b)
the V doesn't really distinguish
punkman: what if
two patches change
two files respectively, with
the same contents
mircea_popescu: approach
thematter from
the other, practical side, maybe it's easier
that way. so i made a patch
that did X,
then i made a patch
that did X'. i consider X'
to be > X.
ascii_butugychag: but i will note
that introducing a new patch
that is binary-identical
to an old one, is an error.
ascii_butugychag: 'longest chain' is
the
trunk of
the
tree, where
the sap flows.
mircea_popescu: (and we'll likely end up stuck in
THIS sort of mud pits a lot more
than i nthe "obvious" ones everyone
thinks about)
mircea_popescu: the reason i question all
this is because suddenly a possibility formed in my head, whereby v could have an equivalent of "longest chain". bitcoin does not follow
THAT heuristic idly. but it must be said
that a) it's a poorly defined heuristic and b)
there are reasons.
ascii_butugychag: so if i submit frobs-x.vpatch and also-frobs-x.vpatch and
they both reference patch frobbed-x-before.vpatch,
then i can press
to frob-x OR
to also-frobs-x or
to any other leaf.
punkman: you can't apply
two patches
that modify
the same
thing, at least in newer v.pl
that checks hashes
mod6 ponders
this question for a minute.
ascii_butugychag: 'press
to' is how we specify which patches get applied
to begin with