log☇︎
339000+ entries in 2.358s
EskimoBob: I personally think this is the unfair part
EskimoBob: only part I did not like is that your bond starts to act like something else when there is a business loss involved
mircea_popescu: you don't know me too well i guess, but i am all about finding the best ways to do finance in btc.
mircea_popescu: why'd i take it personalyl ?
EskimoBob: and I think there is
EskimoBob: I was actually thinking, is there a better way to finance those deals
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: do not take it personally but I think you need to rewrite it a bit
mircea_popescu: here i am EskimoBob
copumpkin: I'll let you judge whether it has worked or not :P
copumpkin: EskimoBob: I think several people have tried making that argument to him before :)
EskimoBob: If I lend you money, I do not want a part of your business. All i want, is my money and %.
EskimoBob: if I lend you money, I do not give a flying f how you earn it back (actually I do but lets keep it simple)
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: you see, bond is a loan. Equity is like lets build some stuff and I'll give you some money. What ever you build, part of it is mine and so are the profits...AFTER! the bonds are paid off (its debt)
EskimoBob: OK, I am back
mircea_popescu: from what i can see with mining "bonds"/FCVWs w./e the problem is depreciation is a given
EskimoBob: then write this to the contract so that I get my spread no matter what and if thing go well, you pay me extra % from the gain
EskimoBob: but you used my money - I have the risk
EskimoBob: oops, i deleted parts of it
mircea_popescu: so basically your ideea is that if i bought insurance myself and offered an insured tier too
EskimoBob: fuck mat, I am a bond holder :) I do not care. I want mu coupon to buy milk ... LOL
mircea_popescu: there's no "i frak up tho", it's a math model, it works the same
EskimoBob: I share the loss
EskimoBob: but when you frak up, I get burned
EskimoBob: so whn do I have to share the loss with you?
EskimoBob: now, the moment you make it in to a "if I make you get..." things get more complicated
EskimoBob: the problem with bonds is: I as a bond holder, do not rally "care" so you make or lose money. No matter what happens, you owe me the promised % and you are obligated to return the principal
usagi: i am going to sleep soon
mircea_popescu: but i dont imagien he mined very much, and i dont think he sold any of it
BTC-Mining: Did he ever mine at all to start with? I suppose so or there wouldn't have been a first few blocks. Unless he found a few people not long before launched, pitched the concept, and they started to mine since day one that the code was released
mircea_popescu: i bet satoshi never did sell a single bitcoin.
BTC-Mining: I got to repair that hole in the screening... night bugs keep entering and go for my screen
noagendamarket: I wonder if satoshi ever used mt gox lol
BTC-Mining: noagendamarket: You know what's worse? I'm sure plenty of early adopters from the first months who were mining them a plenty deleted their wallet and left because their thousands of bitcoins were worth a few measly cents
noagendamarket: I regret sending Bruce Wagner the first twitter message about bitcoin :D
mircea_popescu: and guess what! I STILL HAVE THEM
mircea_popescu: i bought my first btc for $15 lol
noagendamarket: I remeber sub 10 cents btc :)
mircea_popescu: i never was around for that
coingenuity: i remember sub $1 btc
noagendamarket: I feel old :/
mircea_popescu: my memory is not THAT BAD yet, current year i still can access fine
noagendamarket: mircea_popescu no we havent. I havent traded otc for a long time.
BTC-Mining: I somehow managed to get BTC-Mining out of the low volume, numerous new issues that keep popping up.
mircea_popescu: i think i counted 10 ? 20 ?
BTC-Mining: I see no reason to see any difference for bitcoins
mircea_popescu: i think markac would round that to 100.0
coingenuity: i wont touch it, for one
coingenuity: i've just heard something about some defaulting securities on the forum
BTC-Mining: Well I have an actual mining copurchase shares on offer for those interested in less random things than mining "bonds"
mircea_popescu: i think giga got it from amazingr.
mircea_popescu: if i own a mining "bond" my ownership extends over no sum of us$ or btc
mircea_popescu: if i hold a treasury my ownership extends over a certain sum of us$.
BTC-Mining: I'm just not following you on that last bit...
mircea_popescu: which as far as i know was never yet used irl
BTC-Mining: They are more like floating bonds moving up and down according to the operation's state I suppose.
mircea_popescu: hey, i've made profits too, but the point remains : they aren't really bonds.
BTC-Mining: Well in any case, mining so far has been constantly profitable. And so far I see no real loss for any long term miners. GPUs can be resold, although if you bought just before FPGA/ASICs, it's pretty much a loss.
mircea_popescu: i don't take your meaning ?
BTC-Mining: I can hardly see a corporate entity acting like this
mircea_popescu: except i don't think it is.
BTC-Mining: Or he could go: Well you did pay for the equipment I'm trading in. I'll raise to Y mhash on those contracts and keep a similar margin
BTC-Mining: He could do it that way: I've sold you a contract for X mhash. Equipment remains mine, and I'll trade it for 20x more mhash, but won't give you anything
mircea_popescu: if i tack on the option for you to turn it into an airplane
mircea_popescu: if i lend you a car i haven't sold you it, i've lent you it
mircea_popescu: i think he still has the gpus
mircea_popescu: EskimoBob : speaking of the bonds you or i can invest into, afaik the only such in btcworld are the MPOE bonds. care to go through them with me to check this theory ?
smickles: i'll have to ask copumpkin if that 'event' was him cashing out
mircea_popescu: i might have cause of name reference
mircea_popescu: i think they have working prototypes already
BTC-Mining: As I see it, if bitcoin prices soars, you'd be better off keeping them (although you still earn more as difficulty adapt). If prices drop, you have too much hashing per price and returns decrease
BTC-Mining: I meant that by investing in equipment with a fixed USD value, you want returns that can buy you more equipment.
mircea_popescu: i forgot that
mircea_popescu: haha i dun really care.
smickles: i meant, i thought you were looking up in you database to verify when and at what price i bought them at
smickles: heh, yeah, i was confident that i'd make monyz when i made the buy
smickles: i dunno, it doesn't make sense. it's the weekend, and i drink on the weekend
smickles: heh, i thought you were checking up on me
smickles: ah, this is what i get for bragging to the guy who runs the system
mircea_popescu: well, maybe they were cheaper earlier i dunno.
smickles: not many, but i'm a small fry
mircea_popescu: i think it musta been.
smickles: oh well, i bought it much earlier at a much lower price anywoy
mircea_popescu: mno. well i dunno wtf.
mircea_popescu: see, i think 1,9k blocks is past the option expiry.
mircea_popescu: but i mean it's block * hashes by diff times 2^32 no ?
smickles: mircea_popescu: hmm, i think i used a different method to value it or something
mircea_popescu: i guess ?
mircea_popescu: i got 0.005313667
usagi: Every time I see TYGRR.BOND-PI I think of Magnum P.I.
mircea_popescu: i mean
mircea_popescu: i forget the formula that turns hash into money
mircea_popescu: i was just being an ass omg!
Luceo: usagi: I lol every time I see that asset name >_>
mircea_popescu: wait, the plot thickens. i think maybe it's an impostor ?
mircea_popescu: i intend to do a party, have all the girls politopless.
smickles: i probably have it in archive somewhere /me starts lookin'
mircea_popescu: lol wtf where did i put it.
mircea_popescu: i could send you the pic on tits i think.
Luceo: Send it to me, I can get someone to translate from Romanian
mircea_popescu: <Azelphur> it's weird all the hype has died down << you know i think there's a forum rule that only crappy investments can have hype.