328000+ entries in 2.299s
mircea_popescu: but i squarely don't see how anyone would ever consider responding to
a case, ever.
jcpham: which is
a customer service nightmare
pigeons: even if
a contract spells that and this happened
a court rules this way
jurov: if i'd have
a policy saying to clients "if you make
a mistake, screw you" and there's no real reason why it has to be so, it's only reasonable the court would say "screw your policy"
dub: I took
a guy to court for selling me
a boat that leaked, the ruled in his favour because we didnt have anything about it not leaking in
a contract
mircea_popescu: jcpham in no interpretation of fairness can you promote
a judgement based on one single party's pov.
jcpham: fairness is
a relative term
mircea_popescu: dub the idea here is to create
a new system, not to rehash the old.
dub: in
a real court if you forced
a case to be raised, then during the hearing capitualted to the other party, the court would probably impose an additional fine on you for wasting its time
dub: no, its
a ruling saying 'if you are going to enter into arbitration regarding incorrect depost amounts, do that privately'
jurov: no. it is ruling saying "it is improper for mpex to keep everything if user makes
a mistake"
mircea_popescu: basically this is
a ruling saying "it is right and proper for people to disregard instructions and send anything they want to mpex"
dub: aside from mircea_popescu taxing himself 10btc to handly
a customer service case
dub: markedathome: he paid
a 10btc fee to use the rota
jcpham: metaphorically, wences got back his own keys plus
a nother set of keys to another house?
dub: maybe there will be
a real case for the rota one day but it now seems unlikely
dub: lets all agree it was
a fuckup and forget about it
pigeons: cause no one wants to email you to get credits to read
a web page
dub: I think the rota did mpex
a favour ruling this way
pigeons: it was
a rule, but mp told him to go to rota
jurov: mircea i don't understand one thing. why you can't just set
a hefty fee for resolving mistakes?
pigeons: it was breach of fiduciary duty, which he did breach cause he failed to take
a reasonable action
dub: but in the 'case notes' there is some arbitaration and an inferred agreement to refund, so
a win for the claimant is the intuitive result
pigeons: it wasnt
a case against the breach of conditions
mod6: what do you guys do for
a living?
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, i guess this shows why the random person, even if well meaning, can not be
a judge.
dub: mircea_popescu: you should have thought about it before using
a court to settle stupid shit
mircea_popescu: the winner gets
a fraction of 10 btc = to the % he's allocated.
mircea_popescu: 3 judges to any trial, each gets 3 btc, for
a total of 9.
mircea_popescu: two parties to any trial. each contributes 10 btc, for
a total of 20.
dub: why is the rulling against you
a problem if thats what the rota is for, processing your customer service enquiries
dub: mircea_popescu: nah, its
a dumb thing for the rota
jcpham:
a tx fee and
a lot less time could have resolved this
pigeons: i am very upset this was
a rota case
dub: pigeons: 1) because the policy 'wences' agreed to by using mpex is clear and you ruled against that. 2) mpex would have looked
a lot worse having forced the use of rota then winning
mircea_popescu: what did you expect, to start by considering
a five million btc case ?
dub: if the guy had been forced to use the rota and lost, incurring further cost it would be even more of
a joke
mircea_popescu: if we don't believe either of those it's
a dead sell, no matter how hard i push it
pigeons: of course its
a win, he either didnt have to pay, or else his rota gets promted and he pays what he owed
mircea_popescu: pigeons if it made
a reasonable decision it might have i nthe future had more important stuff brought before it.
jcpham: i can't see how it can be
a loss
dub: I think this is actually
a win for mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: not entirely sure if that means it'll just die in
a corner somewhere, but seems quite likely.
dub: mircea_popescu: that doesnt make an sense, your policy is that he would not be refunded, why would that change during
a rota case?
pigeons: we are
a cheap customer service department for him
dub: the rota is
a binary decision maker, not
a policy generating device
pigeons: i know it says dont fuck up your deposits, and im careful cause i know mircea_popescu will keep it, but if he's gonna use this to try to push his rota, well fact is it is
a breach of fiduciary duty it is totally reasonable to fix this when shown proof
mircea_popescu: sadly this was proven true, luckily it was proven true on
a modest case of little import.
jcpham: the fee is just
a bonus
pigeons: i wanted to include that i thought the rota was
a good idea and didnt expect mircea_popescu would pt barnum it
pigeons: "MPex does disclaim responsibility for customer errors in depositing, but correcting this error is
a reasonable part of fiduciary duty."
pigeons: if you are going to make
a point that people can use your rota and it is
a good alternative dispute method, forcing the issue on something like this when you just should have credited the dide without all the hassle is shitty
jurov: like, it's totally the mission of
a judge to please everyone
jcpham: which is fine by me and we obviously did
a bad job
pigeons: it was engaged because instead of mircea_popescu just being
a normal human, he used
a customer service case to not fix the issue so he could force his customer to sue him to get justice, just so he could promote his rota
mod6: i really thought the court was
a great idea, actually. now i just see that we don't have the foresight/legal wisdom to carry it out
pigeons: yeah i wanted punititve damages against mircea_popescu for wasting our time, using the rota as
a promotion, and forcing customers to sue him just to get typical service
jcpham: seems like
a win-win for
a few btc
mod6: what
a bunch of asshats
jcpham: if you send me
a bill for your losses i can make payments until you recover fully
iz: in
a non-zero sum game, the "selfish" move also helps everyone else
mircea_popescu: i will personally impregnate
a billionty womenz to win this bet.
dub: I have
a good one, by 2050 there will be less than half as many humans as today
jcpham: can we make
a selfishness bet
dub: its
a human trait, you don't own it you selfish bastard
jcpham: much more so now that i have
a fmily
dub: is the root of it is they think that because they are
a beautiful and unique snowflake they will somehow do
a better job than 'the state'
jurov: jcpham, funnily enough that was
a communist idea that everyone must be employed and producing
jcpham: removing
a lot of these societal structures implies
a lot of death
jcpham: round 'em up and stick them in
a fence?
jcpham: everyone would be
a resource for me to assign
dub: which means you need some policing which implies
a state
mircea_popescu: what do you think made barbed wire such
a commercial success
mircea_popescu: for the same reason takling away the prop of
a tree leads to tree colapsing
mircea_popescu: i think this is
a convenient statal lie, to justify the historically incredible levels of taxation.
Bugpowder: Only had
a gox account for about
a year