324800+ entries in 0.19s
nubbins`: this doesn't preclude
the fact
that /any/ individual pool miner can have 10%, or 50%, or 100% of his daily
take socked away immediately into long-term storage
danielpbarron: well
that's what Eligius does, or did last i looked into it
nubbins`: because it's retarded
to chop up a reward before you have
to
nubbins`: why don't you see pool-mined blocks split
the reward into a million outputs?
danielpbarron: yeah but why not just do it in
the first place? even older.
nubbins`: uh, you know you can move
the coins again, right?
danielpbarron: as far as i know,
the only pool
taking advantage of
the ability
to create as many outputs as you want in a coin base is Luke-Jr's Eligius
danielpbarron: regarding
this hypothesis
that miners are socking away a percentage, why
then do most coin bases have a single output?
nubbins`: 3600 new coins per day, give or
take
danielpbarron: you got your bouquinism and I got my Bible. I just hope other people have
their
things or it can get pretty depressing
danielpbarron: i suppose
that
there are plenty of groups, including miners, who would like
to interfere with #bitcoin-assets properties
nubbins`: do you suppose any large-scale miner would be anything but a complete fucking idiot if
they haven't been socking away a percentage of each block reward for use when old coins are needed?
nubbins`: do you suppose
there are any miners out
there who'd be interested in generating a large mempool backlog for any given reason?
nubbins`: you meant
that in general it's an expensive attack and would require lots of old coins
nubbins`: also, don't change
the argument into how feasible it is for a lowly shoemaker
to pull it off
nubbins`: danielpbarron don't pretend
to assume you know how many glass cannons i have
shinohai: "Anyone can access it and submit answers, which means
that anyone can impersonate a police officer, prosecutor, or other law enforcement official."
danielpbarron: nubbins`> again, i could create 10k
tx's right now with older inputs
than A1 << isn't
this a "glass canon" as in, can only be fired once? How many nubbins` are out
there with cannons? It costs money
to assemble
this weapon in short order. You have it from years of doing business.
nubbins`: he's gonna find conversations really hard
to follow
nubbins`: but a cabal saying "OK guise, he paid out from a new source, let's get A1 back out
there!".... c'mon
nubbins`: hell, maybe
the "bitbet stole my coinz" guy relayed it
nubbins`: if you
think
the relaying of A1 was
triggered by B, you're daft
nubbins`: look: i receive A1 when it's first broadcast, i hold onto it but i DON'T RELAY IT because my backlog is
too big.
davout: not sure what makes you say
that
the
tx reappearing needs any kind of explanation other
than "people like extra money"
davout: asciilifeform: any bitbet recipient had a strong incentive
to rebroadcast, as soon as
the second
transaction actually paid
them
nubbins`: do we have a reason
to
think which was done?
nubbins`: asciilifeform
the age of A1's inputs ranged from a couple days
to a couple months iirc
nubbins`: and i wouldn't even have
to crack open
two cold wallets
nubbins`: again, i could create 10k
tx's right now with older inputs
than A1
nubbins`: calling A1 spam was a stretch and not correct, but calling A1 anything other
than
the absolute lowest priority is unreasonable
nubbins`: how does a node operator distinguish between
the 50,000 spam 0-fee
tx's and bitbet's 0-fee
tx?
nubbins`: neither did
the 20,000
transactions ahead of it with higher priority
nubbins`: 0-fee
tx followed by 3 double-spend attempts in
the midst of a mempool backlog
nubbins`: i could've kept A1 in limbo for a month if i'd wanted
to
nubbins`: do you have any idea how many 0-fee
transactions i could make,
today, with higher priority
than A1?
nubbins`: ESPECIALLY if you're only connected
to your favourite whitelisted nodes?
nubbins`: if ant/f2 own 500 nodes out of an available 560, how in
the fuck are you gonna see a
transaction
that
they're not broadcasting?
nubbins`: that's "withholding all 0-fee
tx's during a backlog"
nubbins`: but
that's not "deliberately withholding bitbet's
tx"
nubbins`: once
that's in place, whatever rules
they set are essentially universal
nubbins`: if
there was 60 live nodes last year, it seems extremely improbable
that a mining cartel wouldn't rent out a data center and stuff it with nodes
nubbins`: asciilifeform do note
that collusion on
tx relay nodes in
the form of "don't broadcast 0-fee
tx's if
the mempool is > x" would explain observed behaviour
jurov: i can offer coinbr users' coins for
the experiments... seems using users' funds is en vogue
nubbins`: how'd
the mempool look when
that guy's
tx was sent out?
nubbins`: shinohai re:
the link you posted
nubbins`: but i have extremely low incentive
to help mp exorcise his ghosts
nubbins`: i could, as i've got an enormous amount of coins
that haven't moved in a very long
time
punkman: anyway if someone can replicate
the experiment with similarly old coins,
that would not favor
the bitbet-screwed-by-miners
theory
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>punkman: he has, iirc, a
thing
that
tries
to connect
to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel << seems his intel connected him
to a shit set of nodes
nubbins`: i'll broadcast 0-fee
tx's when it suits me, not
the other way around
nubbins`: my node wouldn't have broadcast A1 until
the backlog subsided
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 02:49:05; nubbins`: advertising 0-fee
tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack
punkman: gotta explain why
the 0fee
tx wasn't visible in anyone's mempool for days, although I don't know how exactly mp examined
the mempools and of which nodes he was connecting
to
nubbins`: asciilifeform first
things first, sturles'
theory: fell apart upon examination or no?
nubbins`: kako and i seem
to agree
that nothing about sturles'
theory "fell apart upon examination", although we'd both be eager
to hear your
thoughts on
the
topic
nubbins`: asciilifeform care
to offer an opinion on ^
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's
theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
kakobrekla: actually
this somewhat fixes "bitcoin is
too accessible" as
the requirements
to include
tx in a block are having your own block producing setup
nubbins`: danielpbarron if your interest in a subject is predicated on who else is interested in it,
then i have no sensible response
nubbins`: if mp no longer finds a use for btc, i'm eagerly awaiting
the liquidation of all mpex assets
shinohai: Eventually one has
to stop building with legos and mve on
to more robust materials.
shinohai: Not a lord here, but I have a lot of
time invested in
trb and I agree with danielpbarron.
danielpbarron: it's not like
the code is something wonderful
to behold.
The only
thing it had going for it was
that some important people found a use in it for a
time
nubbins` is a bit surprised
that more lords aren't concerned about mp's shame leading him
to proposing an altcoin as
the way forward
nubbins`: in fact, no rebuttal
to sturles' explanation was offered -- just a lot of gnashing about "but
that's crazy!"
nubbins`: ^ did it,
though? feel free
to link.
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's
theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
nubbins`: and "shouldn't work
that way" does not mean
the same
thing as "did not happen"
danielpbarron: nubbins`, it looks like you're
the one
throwing a
tantrum, and it "shouldn't work
that way" is
the general complaint in here against bitcoin for some
time now.
this event was more like
the last straw kinda
thing
nubbins`: maybe
the market got confused and accidentally dumped 500btc worth of MPOE over
the last 24 hours instead of dumping all
their btc
nubbins`: you'd
think it'd be a big deal
nubbins`: weird
that
the chinese mining cartel revealing
themselves hasn't affected
the exchange rate
assbot: Successfully updated
the rating for mircea_popescu from 2
to -1 with note:
tinpot dictator,
throws
tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling
to admit error in
the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.
nubbins`: !rate mircea_popescu -1
tinpot dictator,
throws
tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling
to admit error in
the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.
nubbins`: "little
tiny bugs shouldn't be able
to hurt a hyooman!"
nubbins`: if
that's a "theory falling apart", i'd like
to see you guys
take on gravity, or germ
theory