asciilifeform: iirc they all have a perlistic 'gurl generator' going 24/7

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sounds , to my untrained eye at least, like spam from the site itself

asciilifeform: life is easy for dodo bird. until not

asciilifeform: i can see it.

asciilifeform: so -- chased away small wolf, invited fenrir ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i gotta wonder, do they answer erry nigerian 419 also ?

asciilifeform: 'you asked me to serve, who are you to ask this' etc

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the aggrieved chix, whose spew mircea_popescu posted on several occasions

asciilifeform: what boggles my mind is that they dun see the plain fact that if yer response to 'oh noez, spam' is to sit down and write missive, you're ddosable with 1 finger

asciilifeform: ( and adjust filter )

asciilifeform: older folx laugh off spam silently

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is pretty plain that the 'oh noez, you spammed me! i'ma write lengthy whine' chixx didn't grow up in '90s

asciilifeform: and hence asciilifeform's interest in re mapping out the net and seeing how much living tissue, where.

asciilifeform: whole point of, e.g., prb.

asciilifeform: ties in nicely with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861840 thrd, also. inca needs mass of 'african children' to be 'neutron absorber', anyffing, anyffing to keep the functional folx from meeting up. ☝︎

asciilifeform: how else.

asciilifeform: 'I’ve been patient, I’ve been gracious / And this mountain is covered with wolves / Hear them howling, my hungry children / Maybe you should stay and have another drink and think about me and you.'(tm)

asciilifeform: the funny bit is that even if errybody turned on ipv6, the result would simply be 9000x moar brekekekex. cuz it'll still work.

asciilifeform: 'force'em into star topology'

asciilifeform: it's exactly this. 'hmm how do we nail warez. iknow, they'll never meet in the vastness of outer 6byte space'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i see ipv6 as , at least in part, a deliberate scheme to make p2p ~impossible.

asciilifeform: at that point, your hydra has enuff heads that it aint beheadable.

asciilifeform: all this means is that you gotta do the initial infect , via whatever way, to get coupla 10k nodes.

asciilifeform: if all you got is 2 boxes randomly firing udp, they can sit for years and not meet

asciilifeform: ~iff~ yer net is big enuff.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i noted as much ( re 'birthday' ), but did not bother to calculate the actual , aha

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct, it worx for a spell ( how long, depends on the particular shitrouter )

asciilifeform: when you send a udp packet, it opens 'ephemeral' path through nat, that for a spell can hear a 'reply' ( which on may nat's, does not actually have to come from the same ip you transmitted to )

asciilifeform: other interesting bit is that brute-force 'udp on random ports' worx great for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-09#1723494 pill against nat ☝︎

asciilifeform idly wonders what % of current net traffic actually consists of this brekekekekexkoaxkoax

asciilifeform: so i suspect the actual # of packets ( and time ) req'd , goes down ~geometrically~ with the # of working noades

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also complicating the maffs is that the 'time req'd to be head' depends not only on particular node's 'shout', but those of ~others~

asciilifeform: ( at least by those with ears )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861970 << exact fig remains to be calculated, but orig point was that ipv4 is a small enuff 'room' that one can 'shout' in it and be heard. ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ( consider, somebody had to catch'em, alive... )

asciilifeform: not cheap, to ship 1500 megarats

asciilifeform: bought, at some cost, at one time i saw the period docs

asciilifeform: and nao infested cities

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in ru there's a massive hunt going somewhere, they were dumb enuff to buy 1500 beasts from usa in '50s and spread in forest 'for fur industry'

asciilifeform: then you get an 'adult' ipv4 to do as you please.

asciilifeform: this is 1 of the reasons why the 'gold medal' for crapware folx today is usually to infect the nat boxen themselves.

asciilifeform: plus there's the fact that nearly all konsoomer boxes (i.e. potential bots) are behind nat.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861967 << tbf, taking a net to the # of nodes where blind shooting is reasonably fast peer finder, takes a '1st stage rocket' of some form ☝︎

asciilifeform brb,teatime

asciilifeform: the old sages were onto this.

asciilifeform: fenrir comes for errything.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: forestall the small wolf, be eaten by the great wolf...

asciilifeform: did they ? i admit, did not follow subj, soured on it thoroughly in early 00s

asciilifeform: even there, grows. hence the whines re 'griefers' , 'cheaters'

asciilifeform: the capacity -- is there.

asciilifeform: wolf, of course, will grow, even on wolfless world. interestingly some time last decade somebody finally filmed deer eating bird's nest

asciilifeform: herbivorous paradise, naturally, infinite grass an' 0 wolf

asciilifeform: but apparently no such luck

asciilifeform: would be entertaining if erry world had a parallel shadow statue hell under it

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, kako was actually trying to bake one of these, and i was almost disappointed when it flamed out and left the current cinders, largely consisting of spamola and occasional prb 'news'

asciilifeform: the slow but effective garbage collector of time + expensive print, helps'em 'cheat', yes

asciilifeform: imho 19th c 'tb poet' is ~exactly today's redditus.

asciilifeform: so when 'poet' came to be seen, largely correctly, as yet another species of urban refuse, living on rubbish like new world raccoon, then yes despised, mega-surprise

asciilifeform: so justly despised.

asciilifeform: was associated with rat life, the way walmart is today

asciilifeform: considering that tb didn't take off until euros packed themselves like spiders in a jar, in 'urban' hell..

asciilifeform: depends. it is interesting to consider that 'seppuku' didn't take off until actual conflict mostly flamed out

asciilifeform: so delved into subj a bit.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been on a yr+ jp kick, attempting to read some of that 1337 poetry in original..

asciilifeform: own sword lol

asciilifeform: dun forget the 'height of the towers' tho. pretty much all of the samurai poetry / arts / etc come from the period where jp had already been properly divvied up, and the swordsmen were living fast off guaranteed kokus of rice, rather than daily raid

asciilifeform: imho entirely adequate model.

asciilifeform: i dun dispute the model where folx with a working head, like thinking and playing with calligraphy brush an' rhyme, and where herbivority is not conducive to growing thinking head

asciilifeform: noshit

asciilifeform: can sing , write haikus, wai not.

asciilifeform: plenty of folx took it seriously, once yer in a platoon of folx ~equally adept at horse an' bow, then how to stand out.

asciilifeform: poetry optional.

asciilifeform: at least mythological raider. real life raider only gotta be good at horse an' bow.

asciilifeform: 'watch me whip myself silly for the glory of god' etc

asciilifeform: exactly that

asciilifeform: i propose that 'pious' is exactly http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861376 ... ☝︎

asciilifeform: afaik errybody saw their particular jumper setting as the One Troo way

asciilifeform: if there's some record that raiders 'were sad' about raiding, i do not know of it

asciilifeform: eh errybody thinks 'doing Right Thing'

asciilifeform: and will similarly expand 'to capacity'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: errybody 'elects maculae', it aint as if raider-cannibal is exempt somehow from thermodynamics, still gotta find somebody to eat.

asciilifeform: 'a furore normannorum libera nos, domine!'(tm)(r)

asciilifeform: which , at least in past, reliably came

asciilifeform: he will unless somebody/something nails him

asciilifeform: ( and unlike in petri dish , the meatsacks ~don't~ automatically fill to capacity, barbarians, plagues, help'em to avoid )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's still a diff, in italy 3 harvests in year, but near moscow ~maybe~ 1

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when actually reading the german folx, noticed, they formulated exactly like this, it's no mystery.

asciilifeform: to make life even moar complicated, the infection, in some circumstances, is actually adaptive ( peasants living where agriculture barely worx at all, can only survive in 'mir' or similar formation , i suspect )

asciilifeform: typical victim dun have so much to begin with

asciilifeform: was about to say

asciilifeform can picture.

asciilifeform: erry good plague has 'reservoirs' also, some species where it lives without killing host

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was half-expecting you'd mention unvaccinated BingoBoingostani and their mumps. but this also worx, i suppose

asciilifeform: incidentally, i must add that if the bots are trooly pwned, and receiver lives in kernel ( or iron... ) then 'ports' dun matter at all, receiver can listen to erry packet sent its way .

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the lulz collectors, http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2018-10-13#441696

asciilifeform: the ~86k packets is a worst-case avg, obviously, per 'birthday theorem' it will succeed almost certainly sooner ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( and yes reality is a bit moar complicated, most bots are behind nat and won't be immediately reachable like this. but it is not impossible to picture a net with say 10,000 udp-reachable nodes . )

asciilifeform: at any rate no intelligently-written piece of shitware really needs a central control box, it merely gotta shoot at random, and will find its fellows.

asciilifeform: in the former case, it only needs to send 1 per second, to find a peer within 24 hours. ☟︎

asciilifeform: this of course presumes that they all listen on 1 port; if not , then multiply the above by the # of ports in use.