log☇︎
300500+ entries in 0.206s
asciilifeform: so no dictionary tricks.
asciilifeform: and spoken to by mircea_popescu for first time.
mircea_popescu: and eating the same food, so one'd expect molybdenum to equalize. but...
asciilifeform: i meant, sitting when she is being taught for 1st time
mircea_popescu: oh, you were there for the event, throughout.
asciilifeform: as in, sitting right there.
asciilifeform: all that the inuit gurl was told.
asciilifeform: or does mircea_popescu propose that i could not possibly perform the match trick even if told all.
mircea_popescu: this "is_technology" function is never as usefully decidable as schoolteachers like to pretend.
asciilifeform: a stage magic trick is a technology, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a much much better example in your own experience. recall the matchsticks ?
mircea_popescu: and lo and behold! she does it too!
mircea_popescu: so you're a little miffed, and suspect us of collusion. so then we capture a random inuit woman, and i spend some time with her,
asciilifeform: there is a less comical example of this, historically - damascus steel.
mircea_popescu: and then i call a girl over, and she tries it, and there it is! a pretty one too.
mircea_popescu: so you try... but nothing happens.
mircea_popescu: you think i'm joking, but presently i demonstrate : i put a finger on my nose, and frown, and fart, and soon enough there it is, another one.
mircea_popescu: and i explain to you that i discovered a way to create them by farting.
mircea_popescu: now then, after a moment of this, you wish to know how the fuck is it possible that these animals live here ?!
mircea_popescu: let's do a thought experiment. suppose i invite you to spend a week at my north pole hunting lodge, where, contrary to what you might expect, we spend our time hunting large floating worms of delicious carnation. with me so far ?
asciilifeform: on the basis that englishmen of 1880 could have built it if it were explained to them.
mircea_popescu: on the basis of what ?
asciilifeform: aha, is technology.
mircea_popescu: so then reactor is a technology ?
asciilifeform: so no, it does not follow that redditus can build reactor
asciilifeform universalizes to alert readerz, not to woodland fauna
mircea_popescu: and the important point here is that no agent may be universal ; and no universal may have agency. which is why god can't act.
mircea_popescu: fine then, let it be so. to me the difference is that i perceive the "you" to be universalizing in your statement.
asciilifeform: but entirely true, sure
mircea_popescu: no. it picks you up, in that some can and some can't ; some do and some do not.
mircea_popescu: that's the point. technology is technology only in context.
mircea_popescu: not for the folks. for the makers.
asciilifeform: the making of prussian-style soldiers, folks with very narrow role in life and bonsaikittened brain, is also a technology.
mircea_popescu: "role in life" is not a thing.
asciilifeform: naturally, it is not his role in life. but their hardware is so flimsy that if cut off from the mothership for a month, they will die.
mircea_popescu: "functional literacy", it's a thing.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, when you have sex you get a child, which is yours, even if you have nfi how cunt works. nor does she.
mircea_popescu: us army grunts notably don't know how the fuck their shit works.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but in a discussion of indian tribes, the smaller trbie with guns that wipes the larger tribe with tomahawks HAS, in fact, deployed the technology.
asciilifeform: when he ~makes own rifle~ - he has the tech.
asciilifeform: all he has is a thing he found on a dead englishman.
mircea_popescu: it is not clear technology is an "informational" thing. seems apt to say technology is a productive thing.
asciilifeform: he does not 'have the tech'
asciilifeform: recall the thread about the indian firing a rifle ?
asciilifeform: point here is that technology is an informational thing. two folks, with same materials, will come to different fates, because one knows that magnetic field induces electric current in moving conductor, and the other - does not
mircea_popescu: yes, there's madmen and there's people, and technology need not be describable to madmen to be technology.
mircea_popescu: but once yo uspeak of madman you're either granting my point or else going full "no true scotsman"
asciilifeform: does not follow, from this, that it is useless to give different names to species.
asciilifeform: there is prolly a madman to whom every animal with 4 legs is dog.
mircea_popescu: and why the fuck not ?
mircea_popescu: fish in the scania is the equivalent of lace in luxembourg.
asciilifeform: having golden meteor fall in your back yard is not a technology.
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as it allowed the swedes to pretend to being a nation for absolutely no other discerinble reason,
mircea_popescu: and what's wrong with that ? are you derriding the pulley system on the grounds of how trite the rope is ?
asciilifeform: fish in the scania was also technology ?
mircea_popescu: so then. accessibility is no sort of criteria for technology.
asciilifeform: or for that matter 'electrical cures' of 1890.
asciilifeform: now this, for sure.
mircea_popescu: dollars to donuts, if you arrest everyone who ever said "quantum computing" on an webpage, and keep them locked up in solitary until such a time they can explain what it means, scientifically,
mircea_popescu: but this was just about 30 years ago, has it not.
mircea_popescu: are you of the same notion ?
mircea_popescu: and there exists a lobby there proposing that for this reason, it is not really, properly technology.
mircea_popescu: tell you what, something as finely technical as, the lorenz contraction, still is not "universally accessible". in fact, it is outside of the purview of ~all us schoolchildren.
asciilifeform: well sure, somewhere in that space live, e.g., galois theory, other fine arts
mircea_popescu: there's a space between these two.
mircea_popescu: because, as per the discussion of "ideas" : in my hand it's an idea, in derp'\s hand is nothing, for derp may not have ideas.
mircea_popescu: ah, but no, i do not accept this requirement that the DESCRIPTION be universally accessible either.
mircea_popescu: just as long as you admit to an increase of maximal-possible-mojo per capita, and to a decrease in marginal utility per capita, you're basically admitting the premises.
asciilifeform: i can readily believe that mircea_popescu's magic got stronger, sure. but did he singlehandedly surplus all of the obsolete meatbags ? or did somebody else's magic also get stronger, and if so how..?
mircea_popescu: the very point being that it's not universally accessible.
mircea_popescu: well no, not necessarily. but on the other end of the same chasm, it may not be a case of "either this leverage is universally accessible or stfu"
asciilifeform: does it reduce to mircea_popescu asserting 'my magic got stronger in ineffable wayz and stfu' ?
mircea_popescu: how testable ?
asciilifeform: or so i thought.
asciilifeform: this was a testable hypothesis re: observables.
asciilifeform: iirc the thread was about 'leverage increased, ergo we are awash in surplus people'
mircea_popescu: it ended up illustrated with minutia, but it is not the illustrative minutia.
mircea_popescu: the particular is not a public matter. but the thing we were discussing, ie, leverage, and its impact of citizenship, and the way this drags out citizenship out of the commoner's reach, is.
asciilifeform: well is it, to use mircea_popescutronic analysis, a matter 'for the forum' or 'for the gynaecaeum' ?
mircea_popescu: and that - well that, it does.
mircea_popescu: what i strictly care about is, doth it or doth it not make it easier for me to send fifty men out of their houses, behead their offspring and claim their women.
mircea_popescu: i don't give the first inkliong of a shit as to whether it could "rightfully" be called technical, inovation, or pornography. that's a concern for kids debating superman-vs-spiderman encounters.
asciilifeform: yeah but it is also possible that mircea_popescu benefits from scratching his toes just-so when he wakes up. this is not a technical advance as generally understood, because the recipe is useless to anybody else.
mircea_popescu: ah but you see, this is thevery thing we're discussing. ~I~ benefit from it, and it empowers me. that'd be what i'd care about.
asciilifeform: here in the land of 50% tax.
mircea_popescu: well, they've been sticking to it for a decade+ by now.
asciilifeform: it is not yet clear to me that 'let's 3% tax' has made it to this stage
asciilifeform: but these transitioned TO technical advances once cemented in place
mircea_popescu: yes, of course, life taking place in nature, its discoveries are DONE to it
asciilifeform: '90s post-sov govs did not have the actual option of mega-tax.
mircea_popescu: in this sense chloroform was done to the discoverer, not the other way around.
asciilifeform: ergo not a technical advance, any more than eruption of mt vesuvius was.
asciilifeform: but the reason i dun see the 'let's 3% tax' as a technical advance, is that it was not a deliberate act, but a concession to collapse of inca empire. it was done ~to~ the folks who did it, like an earthquake.
mircea_popescu: right ? so you're part of the 55th civilisation to discover cellphones. do you care about the other 54 ?
asciilifeform: not being timeless god on mt olympus, i generally don't do 'absolute firsts'
mircea_popescu: context matters, who the fuck cares what lenin's nep did.
asciilifeform: and i can't fathom it being the first.
mircea_popescu: (to be specific : the idea that "small corps are the driver of economy, and should get massive tax breaks" is entirely past 30 years.)
mircea_popescu: what's your definition of technical advance ?
asciilifeform: low tax is now a technical advance?!!