log☇︎
30100+ entries in 0.555s
mircea_popescu: oh found it. and the reason google doesn't turn up is probably "artificial intelligence". http://trilema.com/2014/consent-is-a-myth-lets-see-how-it-came-to-be/
mircea_popescu: ahaha don't be ridiculous.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: often i wonder what the remoras are even doing in #t. why can't they read l0gz like normal peoples.
ben_vulpes: i don't want to hear about your laptop status omg
ben_vulpes: the only actual anti-rocketry defense being "don't be anywhere near targets of interest"
mats: seeing as how hamas is mobile and the dome is static, i don't see how it could possibly work 9/10 times like .is claims
mircea_popescu: hey, they didn't say steel dome yes ? iron, sorta-worx.
ben_vulpes: can't exactly light the computer-controlled machine gun off at inbound targets over heavily populated areas
ben_vulpes: don't
mircea_popescu: what's with the horses anyway ? don't tell me the russkis think themselves don cossacks or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: hopefully he doesn't decide to fuck any of the interns or anything.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/disgrace-dont-the-dogs-get/ << Trilema - Disgrace - Don't the dogs get
mircea_popescu: that "and them only" trailer is mostly why we haven't had the pleasure. just as soon as hitler figures out how to remove it, he WILL burn his citizenry into a crips, as he always does.
asciilifeform: we haven't really had many of'em, to learn from.
mircea_popescu: this is a best case view not supported in practice (by which practice we mean the repeated etherape, symbolic as it is of the chances of the premier science and technology institution in the world in front of a loose assemblage of things that don't, supposedly, exist.)
asciilifeform: don't think enemy doesn't know which wires are hot. he -- knows.
asciilifeform: they daren't. yet.
davout: so a block doesn't pass AcceptBlock if one of the transactions has nLockTime > blockHeight
davout: asciilifeform: isn't it actually enforced?
asciilifeform: and even if it weren't, it does the exact OPPOSITE of what i asked for.
davout: since vermin can hardly be completely exterminated the correct approach seems to be "don't go live in sewer"
davout: asciilifeform: because it apparently didn't match whatever prb thought was a "minimum fee"
asciilifeform: davout: why 'shouldn't have confirmed' in this case ?
davout: latest example of transaction "that shouldn't have confirmed": e73d40c1aa9147e426de43d64753c2318c234426f6efbd090a7a9313d87f95e6
davout: and equipped with such sanity, if your transaction doesn't confirm, double spend it, no big deal
davout: no more "oh, but the transaction you're attempting doesn't match min fee $magic_number"
mircea_popescu: well technically spits it out, it shouldn't insert by itself.
asciilifeform: index'em however you like, if new blocks aren't inspected for pertinent-to-me tx, the thing's a turd
ben_vulpes: any sane trb that doesn't index tx on output address i suppose
mod6: i don't think that should be removed. i think that the user aught to have the option to select them if he wants, with rawtx.
davout: in the same way a gun is usable "naked", just don't point it to your face!
asciilifeform: if trb is not usable NAKED, it ain't trb !
davout: i didn't say it had to come *with* trb
davout: script it on top of trb, don't integrate it directly in there is what I think is the correct solution
davout: asciilifeform: my opinion is that the system doesn't even have any business *attempting* to select which outputs should be spent, let the user plug whichever system he wants on top of the low level "raw tx from arbitrary inputs" tool set
mod6: ok. i didn't grok your sentence above.
ben_vulpes: davout's a rubyist, don't expect rigor in terminology from him mod6 :P
mod6: i think over all it's a decent approach. have some pre-crafted transactions, and see how it goes. this is minimum. i wanna make sure we don't just capture "happy-path" but, all edge cases too.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this won't , as i understand, help him, he wants to ~craft~ tx, not merely broadcast-raw
davout: try to craft a bunch of transactions, sign them, it either works or doesn't work, testing this functionality doesn't seem to depend on a lot of external, hard to reproduce, state
mod6: well, ... feel free. but i think the coding part aside, which isn't going to be horribru, since a lot of it is backport anyway. but the testing is gonna be gnarly.
mircea_popescu: trinque the idea isn't without merit.
phf: true, but alf also "won't touch the web"
trinque: then from there you can optimize and say "I don't care if one guy gets stale form, need moar speed"
trinque: you otherwise get a case where one user can't submit his form, because mismatch between UI and acceptable-insert
mircea_popescu: i don't demand db hand over real memory addresses.
jurov: my point is, if you want to read arbitrary stuff at arbitrary time, you must *carefully design* for it. you don;t get it for free on c machine
mircea_popescu: dude the fact that every other girl in your class is a slut isn't going to feed you or your baby.
phf: davout: you don't get consistent, uninterrupted, sequential chain of blocks. the actual distribution pattern is a mess, that "orphanage" was bandaiding
davout: well, either a block verifies, or it doesn't
davout: phf: you're saying postgresql doesn't have a "read uncommitted" transaction isolation level like innodb?
jurov: mircea_popescu: this is the problem with c machine, that everythign is pointer, and without preemptive locking, you can't distinguish your pointer points to merely stale data vs. garbage
mircea_popescu: and if i don't im racist and rapist ? really ?
mircea_popescu: and i'm supposed to care about the fact that they don't know how to write a db that doesn't spit out passwd ?
mircea_popescu: and THIS is what i mean re "problems in the field". whopee, idiots who can't code still want to be "at the forefront of computing" so they made a modern db that doesn't work.
mircea_popescu: and here's exactly the problem of superficiality : "you either expect consistency or there's no point in discussing". there's LEVELS. maybe i expect all my writes to be consistent and don't care by A CLASS of reads being consistent. this is a consistency model that's consistent.
mircea_popescu: phf here's the problem : moder(field) consists of take field, redefine it in a practically useless but superficially persuasive way, then bad_words() to whoever dares ask if your "field" solves any important questions in the field. because of course it doesn't, MIT is the premier institution in science(*) and technology(*) in the werld. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: whether i would or i wouldn't IS NOT THE DB'S DECISION, jurov .
mircea_popescu: phf think for a second : the whole FUCKING POINT of a semaphore, of any kind, is that user can't know what the other item involved is doing. if they could know, they wouldn't "avoid the locks", they'd avoid the bad write outright.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-30 16:14 asciilifeform: the fastest sync method, supposing one has access to a synced node, but also supposing that it won't do to simply copy the blocks (and it won't, you want to verify) is an eater-shitter system
phf: mircea_popescu: sop outside of mysql world. dirty read is considered a liability, so whole point of db systems design is to ensure that you don't hit locks when you shouldn't.
asciilifeform: (doesn't prove that it is absent)
mircea_popescu: i wasn't proposing mysql in any sense.
mircea_popescu: you don't in general want the frontend to be able to expire your cache, let the backend do it whenever it feels like it.
mircea_popescu: mysql doesn't lock reads on write locks ; i expect any rmdbs should be capable via config.
asciilifeform: (won't import in gpg, but ~will~ in js www-based shitpgptrons)
mircea_popescu would not be particularly surprised if served with 100mb of query as per above postres wouldn't just fall over.
Framedragger: docs say would need to get rebuilt only if there were any unwritten changes. which there shouldn't be as asciilifeform is not using write cache
phf: is it a hash index? it has the least overhead (it isn't logged amongs other things, so you have to rebuild it on crash, but conversly it's kept in memory and only supports = operation) indexes will make your queries more cheap, but writes more expensive, so you want to make sure it's the cheapest possible
asciilifeform: and no, you can't query the nursery every time somebody loads a url, or you get SAME performance as now, omfg
asciilifeform: but what this adds up to is to have ~two~ quite separate phuctors. we wouldn't query the nursery, for instance, when someone keys in a url with a hash
asciilifeform: phf: understand also, postgres can't store bignums as such, it stores strings
asciilifeform: phf: what part of 'this isn't the bottleneck' was unclear
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sql doesn't have a bignumatron
asciilifeform: so no, they can't 'live in db' while it happens
asciilifeform: the fastest sync method, supposing one has access to a synced node, but also supposing that it won't do to simply copy the blocks (and it won't, you want to verify) is an eater-shitter system ☟︎
mircea_popescu: if he weren't a total fucking retard on top of being a consumate conman, he'd actually have 30k to buy an isp now.
mircea_popescu: and for the record : the dood colluded with sonny vleisides / the rest of the 'ndrangheta running "bfl" scam (which, obviously, the usg hasn't ever prosecuted, in spite of loud violation of, eg, parole termas, because hey, partners in crime) to falsely claim that he received a miner delivery so as to scam bitbet into misresolving a bet, on which they had ~500 btc.
mircea_popescu: oh hey, check it out, irc isn't that important. smart move, barely tolerated fraudster.
jurov: i was just paraphrasing, don't remember the exact word
mod6: i had obsd on it like for nearly all of '16... but wasn't doing anything with it. so i threw linux on there.
mod6: nice! i haven't done any sledding yet. gotta do that one of these times.
asciilifeform: jurov: i am guilty of referring to anything that wasn't in my childhood borland3.1 as cpp11
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah, i didn't realise you were happy with linux readcache.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger think for a second : modulus gets added, it's in cache, other modulus gets added, they don't get checked against each other because one was in cache, now we have two unpopped poppables in db.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger see here's what graybeard means : i see that statement, and I KNOW there's a footnote somewhere you don't know about / bother to mention which says "except when abendstar in conjunction with fuckyoustar when it's 105th to 1095th column".
mircea_popescu: Framedragger data loss is catastrophic to a degree that can't be described, as far as phuyctor goes. if you have to also check, your workload goes up 3x at least.
Framedragger: "Note that open_sync writing is buggy on some platforms (such as Linux), and you should (as always) do plenty of tests under a heavy write load to make sure that you haven't made your system less stable with this change. Reliable Writes contains more information on this topic. " oh god. more inserts/sec but zero data loss => probably can't help you much. documentation doesn't encourage me :/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i only said they exist, i didn't say their brains work.
Framedragger: here's what i'm thinking: disable synchronous_commit , but set 'checkpoints' so that results are flushed to db every $n inserts/updates. i can see however how you may barf from such an idea, "it's either reliable, or isn't".
asciilifeform: Framedragger: well it doesn't lose work nao.
asciilifeform: the machine isn't at my house and i have no control over the mains supply.
asciilifeform: (parcels are eaten by script that, presently, has no convenient pause button. and, because unix was dropped as a baby, suspending a process doesn't yield locks, so ~that~ doesn't safely work)
asciilifeform: that means i won't be trying it for couplea weeks. i don't restart db until a current parcel is through submitting.
Framedragger: (some of those settings don't require db restart (but may require to 'flush' params), some of them do, best to restart db after all changes are made.)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: they aren't only inserts, every key turns into half a dozen to a dozen queries interleaved with inserts
asciilifeform: i absolutely can't have a db req returnig before disk is written.
Framedragger: busy for a bit, i don't want to cite you sth without thinking about it
Framedragger: this isn't rigorous, but easy to try.
Framedragger: would still be interested to take a look, wouldn't hurt.