3300+ entries in 0.004s
mp_en_viaje: for
that matter : by
the
time
the 60s rolled around
there were adult
tejanos all over
texas shaking
their head at
this elvis greasy, faggoty bs and
thinking back
to a greater
time in, say, 1890, back when cattle was still speaking spanish and
the east coast dudes hadn't really shown up with
their idioties, "how
to make it all cheap". while in
the actual 1890, actual mexicans in
texas were looking up
through almanacs at
the
mp_en_viaje: but
the end's always gonna be buey zaraza,
tus ojos
tristones mirando la huella parecen buscar el milagro de aquellos pasitos que al irse la ingrata no supo dejar. it has
to.
mp_en_viaje: no joke about
the spanyards, either.
Mientras que, bajo el peso del trigo, los ejes cansados los siento quejar, yo, anudando mi pena a esa queja, con cantos y silbos te sé acompañar. is a fucking
thing, which
they did.
thoroughly, and well -- or if not well,
then as well as could be done, for sure.
mp_en_viaje: by
the
time
the 80s roll around and everyone's driving and
they kick
the cattle out ass by ass
to plonk down oil rigs, it's done for.
the distances narrowed, and oil
trade is integrating in ways cattle
trading is not.
mp_en_viaje: 1960
texas is predicated on
the remnants of
three centuries' british struggles with
the dutch encountering six centuries spanish struggles with
the beasts of
the land, women, horses, cattle generally, defeating it in
the field and
then having
the intelligence
to rape
the carcass raw.
mp_en_viaje: trinque, i don't expect
1960s tx is reproducible outside of a hard reset. highly coherent, profoundly skilled workforce in a complete worldview will absolutely require
the conditions
that spawned
them, and will necessarily dissolve once
the solvents show up.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Maybe rural UY in
the sense of
the departments of Maldonado, Flores, or Rocha. I've not yet investigated out
there yet.
trinque: was kinda curious if UY would end up being something like
this. sounds instead like another latam communist-wannabe.
trinque: probably
texas 40-50 years ago, in my case.
mp_en_viaje: to a certain degree it depends on one's particular interests.
these are fine
tuned for my needs
mp_en_viaje: budapest's okay-ish
these days, otherwise...
trinque: mp_en_viaje: I'm curious, in all your
travels, whether you've found another
tolerable outpost.
mp_en_viaje: hanging out with alf rotted your brain,
the same disorganised randomness exudes off you both by now.
mp_en_viaje: and otherwise, i'm not going
to go
through
the rest of
this drunken braying. start over, and start over like you know what
the fuck you're doing.
mp_en_viaje: quote #trilema
there.
that's how authority flows.
mp_en_viaje: but in general : stop quothing shit from other chans into here.
that's not how authority flows.
mp_en_viaje: i should kick you off of
this case altogether,
that's literally
the dumbest possible move available
to you.
mp_en_viaje: a much simpler "x paid me
to represent him in deed y via
tx z" will go a lot further
than
tjhis other stuff you're doing, you know ?
mp_en_viaje: if a
third party claims your client really paid you
to subvert
the republic rather
than work with it, what do you have
to say
then ?
mp_en_viaje: if your client claims
to not have "really" been your client later, what do you have
to say
then ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 10:04:00 BingoBoingo: Per
the agreement mike_c has made a payment
to me for my voice in
the forum with no provision for any refund
to himself. He chose
this demonstration after being offered
the cheaper alternative of instead sweating out his ammends in
the Qntra newsmines
mp_en_viaje: s keep it simple instead. deed
the basis of whatever claim it is you're representing and state
the basis of your representation for
the log ? something plain like "paid me so and so
to represent
this, here's
the proof of payment"
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 10:03:44 BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Despite
the long absence mike_c has made a substantial act of submission
to
the Republican power structure as gated by
the Web of
Trust. Over
time,
the bar for demonstrations of submission made by absentees
that should have known better... I can only see it rising.
Hence the screw turns clarification on the strategy last night lobbes: BingoBoingo:
This makes sense on reflection, as it would seem like pegging
things specifically
to process is a dubious path
to walk
BingoBoingo: lobbes: And less
the process. It is about submission
to
the structure of authority.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-19 17:50:35 BingoBoingo: Under my original proposal in
the event mike_c's coin was not returned I would have refunded him 10 BTC reducing
the damage
to 25 BTC. Under
this structure, mike_c is out 30 BTC minimum, outcome independent.
lobbes: It does not look like
there is any disagreement on 1. However
the question of whether 2 is an actual demonstration of submission seems like it is still open.
lobbes: BingoBoingo: So if I'm understanding correctly, your argument rests on
two
things: 1) one must demonstrate submission
to Republican processes (thus recognizing
the sovereignty of
tmsr) 2) your client has demonstrated submission with his acceptance
to pay you 30 btc for voice
BingoBoingo: Which outcome in
this case leaves a borader path open for someone's pages
to ask Hussein Bahamas eat a bowl of lumberjack shit in exchange for a literal coinflip
that will determine whether or not
the page escalates his plea for a small mercy
to
the page's lord?
BingoBoingo: Anyways, we've got
this Republic which is sovereign. We've got a lord of lords in MP. Does not paying mike_c maximize coin
that certainly stays inside
TMSR, sure. Does not paying mike_c reduce
the space in which Lords can credibly extract rents from
those who've
touched Pantsuit in
the past, I very strongly suspect so. If we consider
the cause of increasing
the power of
the Lordship over Pantsuit Delusonists...
BingoBoingo: mike_c agreed
to pay substantially for representation along WoT lines. If he gets paid out and retreats forever back
to Pantsuit dreamland or gets aggressive... he'll set a good precedent for closing
the window
that got him paid for all later comers.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 10:03:44 BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Despite
the long absence mike_c has made a substantial act of submission
to
the Republican power structure as gated by
the Web of
Trust. Over
time,
the bar for demonstrations of submission made by absentees
that should have known better... I can only see it rising.
Hence the screw turns clarification on the strategy last night diana_coman: might as well
towards-purposing all along;
that's not at all what "republic of men, not laws" means
to me.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I really hope
this case is not going
to be argued on "perceived signals of decision A vs
those of decision B".
BingoBoingo: This is a republic of men, not laws.
The second order effects, benefits or hazards
that follow a decision seem
to be of incredible importance.
diana_coman: and moreover I don't
think it's signalling
that should be a concern really (in
this case or in another).
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If mike_c doesn't get paid it sends
the signal
that
TMSR doesn't ever deal, following
this external relations is difficult because of
the "What
the hell can a lord do for me" objection. If mike_c gets paid,
TMSR matters, WoT matters, and voice has value as can be demonstrated
through
the outcome of
the case... but
the precedent is not sufficiently restrictive so as
to prevent future
tightening, refusals, etc.
diana_coman: anyway, I admit by now I'm quite curious as
to what
the others in L1 have
to say.
diana_coman: ugh, I don't like much
this precedent on precedent alone but maybe
that's just me.
diana_coman: in
the case where MPEx does not pay him out, I don't see how he has a say into what happens
to
the coin so I fail
to see how is
that part meaningful; if he wants
the coin
to be paid
to asciilifeform entirely
then he can do so once he gets it, no? if he doesn't get it,
then he can't say what is
to be done with it.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If someone comes on a day after mike_c is paid out by MPEx, I can't imagine
this hypothetical next person would receive any offer for voice nearly as cheap as 30 BTC.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: looking at it from
the other side, do you mean
to say
that if someone comes
tomorrow willing
to pay 30 btc
to have some issue heard in
the forum (on which
they also stand
to possibly get more
than
the 30 btc as
the most favourable result)
then it follows
that
they submitted
to
tmsr?
BingoBoingo: The fact
that he valued voice, whether MPEx pays him out or not... I don't see how
that isn't submission. In his best case he gets coin out, maybe he does
turn it all over
to hostile parties. He agreed
that in his worst case where MPEx does not pay him out... his coin stays with Republican interests.
BingoBoingo: mike_c gave us what
Daphna Waxman didn't. Sure, Daphna Waxman is salt pork
that happens
to maybe still be on
the hoof. If Daphna Waxman ever shows up... for mike_c's decision
to make a deal...
there is a screw
to be
turned.
diana_coman: ftr I do NOT mean
that he shouldn't get
the coin or anything of
the sort; I literally mean what I say above namely
that I don't see how does
that qualify for submission.
diana_coman: that's where I find it hard
to buy
the "submission"
thing, at
the "get it
to use it outside" bit.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: as
things stand, he is at any rate after getting
the coin
to use outside
tmsr; because can't yet "find
time" or whatever; sure, some price
to pay for getting it out,
that much his actions acknowledge + some appreciation for asciilifeform's work, certainly.
BingoBoingo: There is a sharp edge facing
those who fall of
the wrong side of
the WoT map. It cleaves.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-17 05:00:55 mp_en_viaje: i get we're basically getting scammed by
the duplicitous nature of
the lazy, and will be, forever. cuz
that's how
the world goes,
that's how laziness survives as a survival mechanism in
the first place. but i'd much rather we understand each other on
the
topic,
than it just proceed on my authority and
then whatever,
ten years later it'll be "mp just shouldn't have paid all
these asshats" or who
the fuck knows what
BingoBoingo: I really don't see how in
this case mike_c could have demonstrated "non-aggression" alone. For his action, he actively acknowledged WoT supremacy. For his recognition of WoT supremacy,
laziness has a demonstrable cost. diana_coman: BingoBoingo: it's not about what I "want"
to call it.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Note also what mike_c did not do. He did not go shopping around for a lower bidding lord after I gave him
the strategy and
then clarified
the strategy, catching him up on where
the Republic has advanced during his absence.
BingoBoingo: Maybe you don't want
to call it submission, but it is an acknowledgement of
the Republic as Sovereign.
BingoBoingo: Under my original proposal in
the event mike_c's coin was not returned I would have refunded him 10 BTC reducing
the damage
to 25 BTC. Under
this structure, mike_c is out 30 BTC minimum, outcome independent.
diana_coman: hm; I
think it shows non-agressiveness; whether submission, I don't quite see it.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Right. As asciilifeform is still politically alligned with
the Republic, I find
the proposal agreeable in creating a second opportunity
to demonstrate continuing submission.
diana_coman: so basically he wants
to give 10BTC
to asciilifeform out of
the coin he otherwise was even rather ready
to consider lost anyway.
ossabot: (asciilifeform) 2019-12-18 mike_c: BingoBoingo: I changed my mind, and my offer
to hire you: I send you fee of 30 BTC (same amount
the mpex account cost coincidentally). If you lose
the case and I don't recover my dividend, you send 10 BTC
to ascii (nothing
to me). If you win and I do recover,
then I send 10 BTC
to ascii (and you keep
the 30). in case of partial recovery, i dunno, we do something gentlemanly.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Well, certainly both options had dimensions in which
they are cheaper
than
the other.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 10:04:00 BingoBoingo: Per
the agreement mike_c has made a payment
to me for my voice in
the forum with no provision for any refund
to himself. He chose
this demonstration after being offered
the cheaper alternative of instead sweating out his ammends in
the Qntra newsmines
diana_coman:
http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-19#1955792 - how do you reason
to get
to
the conclusion
that
the qntra contribution is cheaper alternative?
The way I see it,
the choice clearly spells
that mike_c considers
the 30 btc as
the cheaper option compared
to putting in
the effort&
time on qntra for
the interval you requested.
BingoBoingo: Other lords, you are welcome
to begin spinning
the blades
BingoBoingo: After being brought up
to speed on relevant matters
the Republic has explored in his extended absence, mike_c countered my proposal with one
that sees him out an extra 5 BTC over my initial proposed structure whether he recovers his coin or not.
BingoBoingo: The problem of
the Republic and
the Negrated is not "What does
the Republic owe
the negrated",
the problem is... are
those negrated for
their absence capable of submission after returning. Is doing something other
than submitting an option
they hallucinate.
BingoBoingo: It didn't
take many lines of conversation or a whole hour for mike_c
to find
that
the after missing out on
things over
the years like
the entire history of an ISP... An actual demonstration of
the value of WoT position and
the barriers presented by WoT gating was his best possible demonstration of submission.
BingoBoingo: In
the general case I see a -1 or -2 negrating as a sort of "caution", but I find it hard
to read a -10 as anything other
than
the recipient being marked as future salt-pork
that happens
to maybe be on
the hoof at
the
time of rating.
BingoBoingo: Per
the agreement mike_c has made a payment
to me for my voice in
the forum with no provision for any refund
to himself. He chose
this demonstration after being offered
the cheaper alternative of instead sweating out his ammends in
the Qntra newsmines
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 00:23:14 BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje:
The
truth doesn't wear out.
The screw however
turns with
time.
deedbot: BingoBoingo updated rating of mike_c from -1
to 2 << After a long absence came
to swift submission
to Republican WoT power structure at a greater cost
to self
than initially proposed
BingoBoingo: !!rate mike_c 2 After a long absence came
to swift submission
to Republican WoT power structure at a greater cost
to self
than initially proposed
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 19:26:33 mp_en_viaje: so
the answer will probably have
to carve itself a space within
these
two wires. now, how exactly, is what we're
talking about.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 19:16:09 mp_en_viaje: getting back
to
the whole "among
they
themselves" :
the classical form of
the sq in extremis was something along
the lines of consules darent operam ne quid detrimenti res publica caperet ; videant consules ne res publica detrimenti capiat. let
those guys in charge of
things make sure
the public shit dun get burned.
there's gotta be some commonality for a republic
to exist in
the first place.
mp_en_viaje: goes quite well after a lazy breakfast consisting of a sampler of halva we bought in
this little shop in
the edirne bazaar (which is pretty fucking cool btw), assorted dried fruits, ayran,
tahin, chestnuts an' whatnot. i'm very roundly sated and just as
thoroughly satisfied.
mp_en_viaje: they even
thoughtfully provide matches, in case you're out. old style, hotel branded boxes, like it were nyc 1969 all over again.
mp_en_viaje: amusingly, place does have a fire alarm. apparently
this is not a concern.
mp_en_viaje: in other minutuous mindblowia updates, im lying on my bed here IN
THE HOTEL ROOM, pile of assorted cigarillos and respectable ashtray
to
the side, fucking SMOKING.
mp_en_viaje: i mean uh.
the word's
the same, ye olde beran, but
the participle / past
tense of it is "borne" in all cases when you're not
talking of actual birth.
mp_en_viaje: jfw, " or at any rate
that
the costs of such a change be born by he who makes it" << be borne. diff word,
to bear, entirely unrelated
to birth.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 00:23:27 BingoBoingo:
There is a
tentative agreement.