log☇︎
279500+ entries in 0.178s
mircea_popescu: which they famously did.
mircea_popescu: you know, sultan ordered "an army as strong as the one which took constantinople" be assembled to deal with this guy once and for all. after not doing so well for a long time eventually cornered him against a mountain, where vlad told his men that neither capture nor death of famine beign fitting of warriors, how about we go into their camp and fucking rape them.
asciilifeform: ( http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sphere.htm is all i could find, but the meat of the discussion was in a now-lost usenet post... )
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 15:49 trinque: sounds like resigning to die, but then not having the dignity to eat the bullet
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505509 << you familiar with the famous vlad tepes vs mehmed 2 encounter ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i dun recall that essay ? do link then.
mircea_popescu: afaik this is 1700s tech but ok.
asciilifeform: al schwartz's proof that n-dimensional sphere has more and more of its volume closer and closer to the surface as N approaches infinity
asciilifeform: hey, recall the sphere thread ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> possibly answer is, be small king. far away <<< this is quite lulzy, you know. "i want a center of a circle that's squarer and closer to the margin"
asciilifeform pictures remembering this thread one day as the decks are awash and the end nears
mircea_popescu: well, what can i tell ya.
asciilifeform: but do not see it demonstrated here that problem i posed has 0 roots.
mircea_popescu: if they do, are solvable in practice. if they don't, you're advised to fix your head.
mircea_popescu: that's a different thing. all non-problems are non-psychogenic.
mircea_popescu: whenever you end up with a problem which has no real roots, you therefore have a problem which... has no real roots.
mircea_popescu: hence my observation that the problem is psychogenic in nature.
asciilifeform: so it is not clear that 'be a great king' is optimal solution to 'be left alone'
asciilifeform: thing is a sail. wind pushes it off course, and also down (crash.) and fuel is exhausted. can try to counter this by building larger engines, but then need bigger lifting envelope, and you get... moar sail.
mircea_popescu: or hubcaps or w/e the nigglets steal thgese days.
mircea_popescu: so you'll store your apparata ; plus three princesses and some stolen fenders.
asciilifeform: actually this is reminiscent of the aerodynamic problem which nailed dirigibles:
mircea_popescu: and yes, it comes with the gunk - once you are powerful lord for yourself, you gotta also select others for which to be, or else make enemies.
mircea_popescu: the momeny you've defined your aim as "to exclude others", you have therefore and inseparably defined your goal as "i wish to be powerful lord"
asciilifeform: if the problem is posed as 'can i build a castle in which i can successfully stow a stolen princess every time', then yes, answer is 'be powerful'
mircea_popescu: a change from, "who the fuck does this priam think he is"
mircea_popescu: there is EXACTLY no other ; and the main issue of the war of troy was, "who the fuck does agamemnon think he is!"
asciilifeform: 'be powerful' is not an answer, it is an answer to a different problem.
asciilifeform: naturally 'powerful lord' immediately botches the question
mircea_popescu: and understand - this is the fundamental boyishness here. "father, how should i be a powerful lord ?" "have many friends" "i'll just build a strong castle"
asciilifeform: this begs the question. yes, you need money. just as you need rocket to get to mars. but ~how much~ and what vector. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: money and that's it.
mircea_popescu: hence it comes down to money. not random amulet, be it boat, dome or kryptonite.
asciilifeform: but even he was eventually spotted by tourists - plume of smoke.
asciilifeform: yes, if you want to live like a bear, in a hole, it can even be done in a u.s. national park. people have.
mircea_popescu: but the sand will cover your intake.
asciilifeform: if you run a genset near that tomb, quite likely someone will take an interest at some point, no ?
mircea_popescu: there's tons of these. you could go live in a fucking tomb and probably die of natural causes before they'd even find out.
asciilifeform: incidentally monasteries are a weaker, land-based special case of the thing i am interested in.
mircea_popescu: they were not on any map ; owing perhaps to the happenstance egyptians generally dunno wtf map is, but perhaps not just.
asciilifeform: i suppose it would not be high quality monastery if we had a way to know...
mircea_popescu: i have no way to know.
asciilifeform: are they all dead today /
asciilifeform: ^ now this, interesting!
mircea_popescu also visited coptic monastery ; we were the first visitors since summer.
mircea_popescu visited sufi, was admitted, first person to be admitted in ~decade.
mircea_popescu: i say this on the basis of actual experience, not as a matter of "i imagine boats sometime when i'm frustrated"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform asking "What is the minimal money necessary" is like asking "what is the minimum current draw of useful appliance". it depends neh ? for the money orlov already spent on his pretense (boat, authorship, whatever), egyptian native could have lived entire life happily in the circumstance of "the company of other bipeds being wholly SELECTABLE".
asciilifeform: it doesn't solve the problem !
asciilifeform: but what is the minimal money necessary? and what to build with it ?
asciilifeform: so what would a sane approach to 'i wish to live with the company of other bipeds being wholly SELECTABLE', if not boat ? or mircea_popescu sees entire question as nuttery.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the derp was broadly correct, itwas "in that general direction" and so forth. but omfg patch of salt!
mircea_popescu: they followed the guidance of some derp. that derp.
mircea_popescu: i'm not directing this at him. he is whatever, i dun care. but from YOUR perspective, he works practically as a scammer. you know how donner party ended up in the spot where they ate each other ?
mircea_popescu: actually, further - i think that attempts to solve it on those lines will cost the attempter his life and sanity for no benefit. in other words - i say orlov is a scammer.
mircea_popescu: i don't think trying to formulate it is madness ; i do think that the orlov formulation is ridiculous at best.
asciilifeform: because technical breakthroughs occasionally do happen.
asciilifeform: but i say they are worth considering separately.
asciilifeform: and quite likely mircea_popescu is right re the technical side.
asciilifeform: this was my sole objection to mircea_popescu's position - he mixes technical (you can NEVER make this machine work economically) with philosophical (trying to ~formulate~, not to mention ~solve~, this problem is MADNESS!111) objection.
asciilifeform: but the question of 'how long can last' is an engineering question.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it is or if it isn't is your choice to make ; but don't go around showing me your holy amulets that prevent leg breaking.
mircea_popescu: oregon trail consisted of ? man and woman and grown children and the grown women's boyfriends and and and and a dog@!
asciilifeform: well then let's concretize: no, i personally have 0 interest in being part of a mormon family. and yes, it means i live until first broken leg. maybe this is acceptable tradeoff from my pov.
mircea_popescu: you said "but still". that's denial. and worse - a disawoved denial.
asciilifeform: question is, folks who dun have it, or dun want it, ought to eat their pistol immediately ? or there are other ways to live.
asciilifeform: no denying that it is a powerful thing.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-03 17:44 mircea_popescu: for the anthropologist, god damned fascinating, they're like a family-sized snail building its conch.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-03 17:48 mircea_popescu: there's ONE thing the middle eastern guy has that white man can't replicate, and that is, a stable, and here i kid you not, a stable, of dozen+ pliable obedient females WITH offspring.
mircea_popescu: i guess ima have to dig the link now.
asciilifeform: egyptian swarm is great for the mass of humanity. folks with 0 theorems.
mircea_popescu: do we revisit the egyptian household thread from last week ?
asciilifeform: granted these were households, with plenty of disposable human torpedoes, not lone wolf. but still.
mircea_popescu: demographically, rather than as a work of fiction, the push west was a push towards the highly concentrated san francisco.
asciilifeform: plenty of 'poor and we will live four days' journey from the next poor'
mircea_popescu: this is the definition of poverty, nude and rude : incapable of surviving on own.
mircea_popescu: if you're poor your only hope of survival is the swarm. this is a point of fact, and why peasants and hunters flocked to town to be poor there.
mircea_popescu: seems more wilful self-hypnosis than anything.
mircea_popescu: why do you think it is a fundamental problem with only SOME things is beyond me.
asciilifeform: which is the fundamental problem with live-in trucks etc.
mircea_popescu: (proper there meaning "of its own" not "correct")
asciilifeform: i see the hypothetical machine as a pill against 'if yer poor you gotta live near other poor folks'
mircea_popescu: there was a technical counter there, as here ; it was abandoned upon your surrender. what was left were there as here "philosophical" let's say items, which lacking any proper substance can continue indefinitely.
asciilifeform: 'no, mr bond, we expect you to die!111'
asciilifeform: well it was a philosophical rather than technical counter.
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely sure this is that different from that.
asciilifeform: the last time we had this thread we got a, imho, more interesting mircea_popescuine: 'boat is wrong problem because you are trying to make being poor and powerless work, if yer poor yer job is to die'
mircea_popescu: but to my eyes, it;s more a case of "i want impossible item" "why ?" "because of strange notion" "Wouldn't it be cheaper to..." "fu demigod, it is true humanity to do the impossible ; takes demigod to accept the obvious!"
asciilifeform: is this simply variation on familiar mircea_popescu program 'i am demigod and if somebody has a motivation i don't grasp, they are inconsequential sea slug and stfu' ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform women shit shits into the world, which follow their dreams and could one day be president. accept gusti in your life!
mircea_popescu: "look how it leaves... like a child his house.... go gusti! follow your dreams! you too could, one day, be president!"
asciilifeform: still not obvious, perhaps i'm thick
asciilifeform: i must confess, this is a hard nut
mircea_popescu: (they're lost in space, the histrion takes a shit, which flies towards the foil ; "accept Gusti in your life!")
mircea_popescu: you know that one ?
mircea_popescu: alternatively, "accepta-l pe gusti in viata ta"
asciilifeform: (yes this is not what you get in a boat, but it is a kind of mathematical ideal)
asciilifeform: i would happily live in a truck if the truck could be teleported into a parallel space with 0 people by push of a button. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: EVEN IF i fucking armored it and added a thermoplonjon thing.
asciilifeform: not that i couldn't arrange it, but that it would not be accurate picture of ~purpose-designed~ capsule