log☇︎
279200+ entries in 0.16s
asciilifeform: well the fiberglass yacht he started with had troubles. hence the retrofit.
mircea_popescu: if your idea of winter is "no ice floating", then most ships will survive such.
asciilifeform: this entails some insulation in the hull (orlov retrofitted ordinary boat with this, there are pics on his www) and a heat source.
asciilifeform: well perhaps not arctic, but in the general case survive in 'die of hypothermia in half hour' water which fills a good chunk of the planet for much of the year
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 17:54 asciilifeform: trinque: you will find that the machines are not designed for permanent life aboard, or to survive winters.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505950 << most ships aren't intended to survive "winter" if your idea of "survive winter" is anything like http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VH9Oq9YArEk/TyAUen8cFaI/AAAAAAAABdU/QoPr6It9QQ4/s1600/IcebreakerYamal.jpg ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i'm also certain it wouldn't be worth having ; but that's a different story.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 17:50 mats: so, over or under ten?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505943 << it's likely fully automated sub could be had ; possibly for the cost of a decade or two of his life. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 17:46 asciilifeform: ( did mircea_popescu ever build that mega-toilet ??)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505938 << the tub shitter ? neah. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: i imagined they must be spraying, but then again i never saw either flight or land crew doing in.
mircea_popescu: but even there...
mircea_popescu: well yes, the subway.
asciilifeform: possibly they exist steadily in one particular spot in the city
mircea_popescu: but here somehow they exist and are rare.
asciilifeform: reminiscent of various yarns where 'cannot eat the alien food because wrong protein chirality'
mircea_popescu: it is the strangest thing, i used to think mosquito is the sort of beast that either doesn't exist or else is abundant
asciilifeform: 1, i think, but it was not able to bite through my skin for some reason.
mircea_popescu: by that criteria buenos aires spring is about 10 months long.
Joshua-I: I have broad taste in that area. Let me think on it a minute
asciilifeform misses one season - spring - which is about two weeks long here. defined as the season where one can go outdoors without either frost or mosquitoes
Joshua-I: I'm definitely projecting then :)
Joshua-I: Just wondering if you still yearn at all for the winter
mircea_popescu: but if one is going to live in a large human anthill, byzantium prolly a better choice than more modern atrocities.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a bad place. of course, these days... Joshua-I sorry wut ?
asciilifeform: almost enough to make me contemplate.
asciilifeform: many positive things re the turks in mircea_popescu's works.
mircea_popescu: why the turks specifically ?
asciilifeform: i've wondered on occasion why mircea_popescu did not settle among the turks.
mircea_popescu: every time i leave someplace there's a bunch of girly tears left behind, you know ?
mircea_popescu: it never rains in egypt. that was nice. not in suitcase. it never gets hot in northern transylvania. also. i dun have either bosphorus or golden horn. the list is long
asciilifeform: what, other than proper euro winter, did mircea_popescu not fit in his suitcase ?
mircea_popescu: well, if you count it going to like 5 celsius ONE NIGHT and otherwise being a very balmy lower tens thing winter,
asciilifeform: because the socket was ~not~ actually done away with.
asciilifeform: but regardless, jurov has no case here, because if i want to plug in such a toaster today, i can easily do so without spending so much as one extra penny.
asciilifeform: or, hm, apparently in usa toasters etc with light-bulb cones were once common.
jurov: it was *the* standard at some time
asciilifeform: i have edison screw light bulbs all over the house ?
asciilifeform: jurov saw such a thing?!
jurov offers to asciilifeform classical vacuum cleaner with edison screw plug
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506175 << oh sure, i agree; but it may work for a limited case, as a quick thing; not as a proper stats platform or whatever, god forbid! ☝︎
asciilifeform: and a tall pile of things which MUST burn.
asciilifeform: (they get to, e.g., buy a million adapters from one broken misstandard to another)
asciilifeform: and so they get, what they get.
asciilifeform: for whatever jwz reason, this is NOT how folks have been treating programming languages
asciilifeform: if i go to a shop and buy a vacuum cleaner and the mains plug fits in NO socket, i will never buy from said vendor again.
asciilifeform: and it is not sufficient to ~have~ the money, you must also ~withhold~ it from the non-compliant vendors.
asciilifeform: the unfortunate bit is that standards-compliance costs money.
asciilifeform: iirc there were versions of allegro which ignored case sensitivity toggle.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/oGZR6 << in other lulz. 'Marines Will Soon Need to Know How to Shoot a Moving Target, Because That Wasn't a Thing Before.'
asciilifeform: jurov: this is because the standard was incomplete, and it is nearly impossible to write a program today wholly using only the standard.
asciilifeform: 'Android would freeze unexpectedly, especially when trying to watch aerial feeds of unmanned drones, the source said.'
jurov: eh, i run into this with common lisp all the time
asciilifeform: at any rate, the existence of even the POSSIBILITY of a program which ran on one, but not another, is what i was speaking of
jurov: yes, there was a gui
asciilifeform: was there a gui ?
jurov: lol i was the only dude on the team with the setup
jurov: but we disgress, thanks for examples!
asciilifeform: nor was there ever a hard standard.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 21:02 jurov: ibm ships own jvm, too
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506248 << in past life, when i gave half a shit, EVERY single proggy i tried to run on ibm jvm, barfed. ☝︎
deedbot: [Qntra] US Department of "Defense" Switches To iPhone - http://qntra.net/2016/07/us-department-of-defense-switches-to-iphone/
asciilifeform: even before you get to os/libs crapolade.
asciilifeform: (a good chunk of historic c succumbs to endianism, word size, etc. idiocy)
asciilifeform: phf: c 'portability' is a laugh, considering the tight coupling with cpu
jurov: re: common lisp - i'm curious, is there any 20y code still worthwhile to run now?
phf: pascal, less so than above languages, but still more so than even C, since it has a standard notion of pascal machine. C can do 20 year old code, but within some narrow scope of posix, or more like "unix" ☟︎
jurov: ibm ships own jvm, too ☟︎
asciilifeform: (yes most folks programmin' today have never seen, smelled, touched, such a thing.)
jurov: is there any language capable of running 20yo code?
asciilifeform: but naturally crapolade built ~by~ and ~for~ disposable young cocklets, does not ~have~ a concept of '20 year old code i wish to run today'
asciilifeform: and ought to be milking hogs, not designing systems
asciilifeform: phf: re python: in my view, if you EVER end up breaking a language in such a way that 20 y.o. code cannot run, not only was your lang broken to begin with, but YOUR HEAD was. ☟︎
Joshua-I: trinque: I'd advise seeing it for yourself as it may be the only way to convince you
phf: Joshua-I: you didn't understand what i said, and i have neither interest nor time to explain myself
Joshua-I: phf: it's not like consistency and rigor are foreign concepts to me just adding in some comments on the other side of the conversation
phf: somehow the separation between the two is totally alien concept to a lot of people who run into tmsr machine. "i eat shit, therefore it's good for everyone". we too sometimes eat shit, but we have good sense to know that it might not be the best thing
phf: Joshua-I: sure, that's why i use intellij for work, but i will not talk up the virtues of intellij like it's a good thing, which is what you're doing
Joshua-I: phf: it is if you want the goods
phf: Joshua-I: you make it sound like being sloppy with your tools is a good thing :)
Joshua-I: phf: eh I might be over abstracting because I tend to just jump from concept to api so I can get something done sooner rather than later
trinque: I do not benefit from tales of secondhand wonder !!!1!!
Joshua-I: trinque: it's pretty impressive to see in person
phf: you look at ipython code now, read tutorials and you think to yourself "oh this makes sense, it is nice", but over the course of 5 years scientific computing with python went through 3 or 4 different suits. that's an unreasonable amount of cognitive overhead, considering that mathematica now supports all the same primitives that mathemaica in '95 did ☟︎
trinque: gabriel_laddel was supposed to be building just this
trinque: that said wtf is wrong with the lisp repl for a "notebook"
asciilifeform: (i will remind n00bs, also, that the part of phuctor which actually phuctors is a pure c proggy.)
trinque: aha, so guy might as well do some work as long as he knows he is not making statements about how computing is to be done.
asciilifeform: but it is what they had.
asciilifeform: phuctor in python ought to be seen in the same light as the bamboo stakes smeared in shit the vietnamese defended their country with
trinque: tbot here is perl, trb builder is either sh or Makefile
phf: Joshua-I: i don't know what "same api" means, in this case. ipython is an enhanced ~repl~, but the code that you write with it constantly changes, because can't just load data set into a python array. need to use numpy, etc.
asciilifeform: there is plenty to criticize. but it had gone with 'sane engineering all the way down' you would be waiting for it still.
trinque: some things benefit from expediency and we as yet lack the republican computing platform
Joshua-I: I might not use it for more specific analysis tho
Joshua-I: I'm doing this program online that uses it. Gets the job done
Joshua-I: afaik ipython has a similar api to a lot of stats / machine learning suites
asciilifeform: i suffered the misfortune, at rupturefarms, of maintaining a 'sage' thing, it was agony
phf: ipython is a handy python repl thing, but i think it was some people's first repl, so it turned into reinvention of clim presentations. problem is it's entirely useless without third party libraries for any kind of large scale data analysis, because core python is limited. where's the landscape of python scientific libraries is a constantly changing mess.