276400+ entries in 0.169s
mircea_popescu: when i say "You see ?
The capitalist found
the externality, made his item certainly cheaper and arguably "better" at
the expense of unknown
things not in his charge." i am not being facetious.
the derp's actually being a good capitalist in
that example. which is
the broader point
there : one can't pull himself up by own breeches, "capitalism" is not a cure for stupidity, merely an instrument for smart people.
mircea_popescu: trinque
the important point about "externalities" in a discussion of money, and by extension capitalism, is
that
they're never anything other
than a power play. (much like appeals
to "science" in a social setting, notwithstanding
the libertard's hollow pretense
to
the contrary).
mircea_popescu: that difference is perhaps best understood as
the difference between "find me
the real roots of f(x)" and "find me
the limit of f(x) with x->inf". different stories altogether.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: it's
true
that oil ~futures~ did
top 100 for some
time some
time ago.
this is a different sort of "price"
than
the "price" of interest in
the reasoning above, and a different sort of signal.
mircea_popescu: t.
the 25 cents may not be exact, but
they're not far off for one
thing, and based on actual reasoning as opposed
to "let's say
things see what happens".
mircea_popescu: anyway,
to round
the matter for
the readership, oil is not 100, but about 35 atm. was 40 last year. in
this interval of
time, about
two
thirds of
the cost of
the barrel comes from various royalties paid
to governments, both directly and indirectly in
the form of "compliance" with myriad idiocies.
the cost of refining, owing
to
technological advance entirely unrelated
to government, is under a cent.
transportation around a cen
mircea_popescu: this is a prime something
to cleave, somehow. it is a major limit of our world, much moreso
than "carbon" blabla or gravity. its unyielding pressure creates
the necessity of
the harem, for instance, and many
things.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but of course, more generally,
the reason civilisation in all its known implementations always flows
towards "herd of females, and capons" is exactly
that naturally, boys
tend
to prefer learning by
the above described process, which is never popular with
the learned.
mircea_popescu: there's better ways
to learn
things
than saying
the stupidest
thing one can
thing of
to
the smartest people he can find.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not a matter of "deny". energy economics is a proper field, which you're welcome
to learn if you care, or not.
the behaviour you briefly engaged in is not unlike 15 yo alf
trying
to learn math by busting into brin sr's class and yelling "all functions are convex! prove me wrong!" really loudly.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo
the substance of
the dreamer's dream is always dreamy! and of a creamy consistence!
trinque: you conflate
transactional, monetary cost and ~consequence
trinque: no one ever bought "fission power"
the concept
trinque: and for fucks sake
there is no such
thing as "the cost of fission power"
☟︎ trinque: asciilifeform: I refer you
to
the "pay for sunlight"
thread. No one contests
that
there *are* externalities, but
their cost is undefined.
mod6: I'd have
to dig
through
the logs. I'll
turn my attention
to
that at some point soon after I get an updated build script out
there.
mod6: I'm
trying
to remember
the specifics. I can't seem
to recall
too much about it.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu>
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-28#1510902 <<
this is a good point, actually. gotta be looked into, sealing gotta seal all
the crevices. << noted. I dug into
this at one point, but got side
tracked by other pressing
things
that came up at
the
time.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 01:16 mircea_popescu: i eagerly await article explaining how $100 petrobarrel << i dunno what you
think
this sort of nonsense achieves. what in fact it achieves is "oh look, alf has nfi what stuff costs, but he wants
to derp about how it works". it's a bad habit.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-29 01:19 mircea_popescu: want it or not, some level of denied externality is baked into life, not just human life bu life altogether. most people grok
this point when contemplating lord kelivn's universal death idea.
BingoBoingo: In other news, some derp is dreaming about mustering enough miners
to 51%
the ethereum chain
that didn't hardfork in a
time
travel
theft. Idiot appears
to be neglecting
that much hash would make his chain vulnerable.
mircea_popescu: want it or not, some level of denied externality is baked into life, not just human life bu life altogether. most people grok
this point when contemplating lord kelivn's universal death idea.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ~nobody paid anything like
the actual cost << if you mean "the cost
to make huge ferns, stuff
them into earth, make oil",
then yes.
this is however no argument : nobody pays, nor could anyone ever pay,
the "cost
to re-do big bang".
mircea_popescu: i eagerly await article explaining how $100 petrobarrel << i dunno what you
think
this sort of nonsense achieves. what in fact it achieves is "oh look, alf has nfi what stuff costs, but he wants
to derp about how it works". it's a bad habit.
☟︎ mod6: <+trinque> ey mod6 ^ << hey,
thanks again
trinque. o7
ben_vulpes: to continue
the exercise, for students, every
time pete_dushenski is logged in and self-voiced, he may be assumed
to be in physical proximity
to his keys.
trinque: I might find
time
to investigate why soon
trinque: my observation is
that my node will get behind,
then rapidly catch up if restarted
shinohai: Finally! been waiting on
that for some
time
trinque lol
trinque: blockchain was a bit behind on
the node, but yes, farts bundle URLs now
pete_dushenski: anyways, i have
to beat
this rainstorm heading my way. having left
the 16cyls parked, cycling and all. i'll read
the continuation in
the logs but it'll be a few busy days until i'm voiced again.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: of
the social form, not
the 'we wrote
this on a piece of paper and now it means
things and we also made lots and lots of signs everywhere so
that you never forget what we wrote on
the pieces of paper'
pete_dushenski: besides, everything alive grows
to
the point where it can't grow anymore.
pete_dushenski: structure, rules, hierarchy,
the lot. saudis have. usians don't.
pete_dushenski: so non-people helping non-people... i fail
to see
the issue here. saudis have far more culture, however lamentable you may find it,
than americanos.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: basically, costs and prices fluctuate and you can't just cherrypick historical numbers
to suit your
theory.
pete_dushenski: when discussing proportions, it's essential
to keep in mind what our priors are. don't be
the vacuum
thinking kid from
the recent contravex comments
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: $44 barrel nets $2 gallon at
the pump. $100 barrel closer
to $4 per gal at
the pump.
trinque: as in, "the
train wreck cost him his life"
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 23:34
trinque:
this is
the fucking carbon credits argument
trinque: you do not get
to
tally up
the sum
total of effect something has on
the univese itself and
try
to derive a price from
that
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 23:34
trinque: I am not here
to pay for consequences like somebody's child, merely
to buy a product
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 19:35 asciilifeform: ;;later
tell hanbot 'alcachofa 7515' is mega-story. i can almost apprehend
the sheer vacuum inside
the argentine heads now!111
trinque: generous rate on
the stupidities
mircea_popescu: trinque i'd be happy with a boyhood
tax.
to quote
the classics,
three pennies
to
the gossip ;
two
to
the lie and one for every
two stupidities.
mircea_popescu: there isn't "the cost of
there being such a
thing as saudi arabia".
this isn't how costs work. and in general,
this isn't fucking fiction.
pete_dushenski: trinque: chinese probably
tried
that already. a millennium ago or so.
trinque: not just
their wage mind but
the wage of all jobs
they might have done otherwise
mircea_popescu: again :
the 2 dollars paid at pump for a gallon of gas are split : $0.25 covers
the entire economic process involved ; $1.75 goes
to usg
to pay for random idiocy du jour
trinque: they should introduce a meta-tax next, which is a
tax which covers
the cost (including pain and suffering) of
the cockroach bureaucrats having
to count
the
taxes
ben_vulpes: nah pete_dushenski you gotta install a bouncer so
that nobody knows when you're around or not, and as a consequence can't raise an eyebrow at 'too much
time in #trilema'
pete_dushenski: trinque: alberta socialists just introduced 'carbon
tax'. will be mild annoyance for next 3 years until repealed by righties next election.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: saudi arabia doesn't enter into it. alberta,
texas, and bakken do. unless you can explain
this angle ?
pete_dushenski knows he's been spending
too much
time in #trilema when it
takes him four
tries
to spell conpherence with an 'f' for work proposal
trinque: I am not here
to pay for consequences like somebody's child, merely
to buy a product
☟︎ trinque: this is
the fucking carbon credits argument
☟︎ pete_dushenski: this is a slippery slope
towards 'all lives are worth infinityplusone doll hairs'
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: cost in what sense ? you want me
to calculate cost of dead duck who flew into
tailings pond ?
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 22:46 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: in a sane world, it would be petrol station
that is a costly luxury.
mircea_popescu: dude.
the cost of hiring a woman
to scrub my floor is not "whatever plus
the cost of keeping her from going
to college and also running of
to cuba w3hen she was 17"
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: Right Answer is like Right God, it's a very personal
thing once you start
to divorce its connection
to
terra firma.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-28 22:45 asciilifeform: starting from
the astonishingly available and quite subsidized (incl. via petrowar) fuel
pete_dushenski: 9-tonner might be an issue for anyone 'sane'
trying
to maintain roads