272000+ entries in 0.168s
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you've not actually managed
to lose your key, have you ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I'm homeless and
that isn't really possible atm
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: spiffy. I'd be happy
to pay for postage. Will
try and find somewhere
to ship it later
today
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel
the point was
that rms made certain falsifiable statements,
that alf
took
the pains
to falsify.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: "machine crashes at full cpu load in 100% of case" < nevermind
then. glad I asked.
a111: Logged on 2016-02-29 16:55 asciilifeform: so at
this point i'm satisfied
that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu:
ty. asciilifeform: I
think
that
the rotating screen is spiffy, and would love
to stop carrying around a notepad + computer
mircea_popescu: you realise
that derivative evaluates on bases other
than... your money ?
gabriel_laddel: Gotta run. If anyone has experience with
the levano x61
tablet or some other hardware you really like, do
tell. I read all logs eventually.
mircea_popescu: any arbitrary pick of my slaves has more money
than jobs had when retook apple.
mircea_popescu: wouldja stop with
the fetishism ? "without money" == "dumb as rocks" and nothing else. not now, not during roman judaeea.
mircea_popescu: note
that
the woz didn't make
the ipad. so
that
theory lost a lot since 2002.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have serious
trouble distinguishing him from a young steve jobs, at
this point.
mircea_popescu: phf define for me
the concept of "bridged on architectural grounds"
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: I have people waiting on me *right now*
to sell
them masamune machines.
mircea_popescu: eh
this is nonsense. something somewhere will at some point have
to write
to video ram ; and he's not said much more
than
that.
gabriel_laddel: Also, you seriously underestimate
the utility of paying other people
to do work for you.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: can we
table
this discussion for
the
time being? I understand what it is
that you're getting at, but you don't have (and nor will you have) a clear picture of exactly what it is
that I'm doing.
phf: problem with mcclim is
that it went
through many 2002 style "for
the people" pretifications,
that made optimizations, refinment and other aspects of architectural design work much harder
than need be
phf: puts concerns where
they matter. (like not requiring client render its own fonts for one)
phf: i
think
the disagreement can be bridged on architectural grounds. i
think gabriel_laddel's lack of understanding of clx and ideological refusal
to understand it better is going
to result in
the worse final design.
there are examples of x11 done right,
that are much easier
to port away
to native hardware. whether or not "x11" or "no x11" is
the final design, basic x protocol provides for a very solid set of ground level elements and also
gabriel_laddel: Terry A Davis wrote a whole graphics system
that doesn't communicate with X.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll
tell you why not : because until he asks, you can;'t
tell.
mircea_popescu: i
think
the last person who had
that locked
themselves in a cellar and rages
there still.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I will note
that if someone with sufficent knowledge of x.org stumbles into my life, I'd be happy
to pay
them
to solve
the issues CLIM has with it
mircea_popescu: problem being
that you're all done designing yours and are now designing his,
too.
mircea_popescu: bring
this argument again once you're pdf free, ye hear ?
mircea_popescu: motherfucker. YOU YOURSELF USE SHIT
THAT DOESNT INTEROIPERATE
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a ms-dos lisp would not, at
this point, be a bad machine.
mircea_popescu: this is debatable. but
the fundamental problem with allowing userspace hardware access is
that it can cut you loose from your own computer.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I'm not sure what "job" you have in mind, but suspect it is different from
the one I have in mind
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: my understanding of
the present situation is
that
the linux kernel is here
to stay, as it is a result of
the way
that
the cee machine works, and contains drivers for a bunch of useful hardware
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel
the reason kernel exists is so
that random crap doesn't steal your machine.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: was my interpretation
that in 2002 people were dong a lot of client side font rendering?
phf: gabriel_laddel: i understand your end goal, but
the steps
that you're
taking
to get
there are going
to result in worse design. you'd be better served in understanding clx first, making ~that~ work well by working
to its strengths, and
then replacing clx with own system. by
then you'll have a snappier system and less primitives
to write. i highly recommend spinning up VLM/genera and seeing how
they do unix interop. it's really quite
mircea_popescu: well so
then do you understand what phf means about "Welcome
to 2002" ?
gabriel_laddel: in
the sense you're
thinking about
things, probably
the "user space"
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: it is not yet clear as I don't know enough about
the kernel
to know if I can do away with
the whole "user space"
thing.
mircea_popescu: is
the cl process
that
talks directly
to
the hardware part of "kernel" or part of "user space" ?
gabriel_laddel: you simply have a CL process
that
talks directly
to
the hardware
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so who renders,
the client or
the server ?
gabriel_laddel: though
tbh, I plan on paying someone else
to do much of
this
gabriel_laddel: phf: I intend
to do away with
the whole notion of "client & server" in rendering for CLIM
mircea_popescu: whatever wisdom one has is divided in
two categories :
that which must be asked for ; and
that which needn't be.
mircea_popescu: you
two make miserable fathers, let it be stated in
the permanent record.
phf: gabriel_laddel: first mistake is
to do so much pointless rendering on
the client. from
the few minutes of
talking, it's quite clear
that you're prepared
to walk
the path of "linux on desktop"
to
the same result
gabriel_laddel: but I need a stable platform from which
to redesign computing from
the ground up
mircea_popescu: phf he means you can't use
them without x, integrated.
gabriel_laddel: there is no meaningful way
to interrogate
the X server about its state, so when it crashes (and it does from
time
to
time), it really gets in
the way of
the whole lispm experience
phf: gabriel_laddel: cairo is not integrated with X, nor is freetype. both are client side rendering libraries,
that send computed bitmaps over
the wire
gabriel_laddel: phf:
that's not what I'm saying.
truetype is in CL. McCLIM is 100% CL. But it /communicates/ with X, which has cario and all
this other nonsense integrated with it, and it's causing problems.
phf: gabriel_laddel: you're saying
that mcclim has FFI
to cairo/freetype/opengl, i don't
think
that's
true, care
to link
to relevant code