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chetty: hey how about a bet?

cerelenius: bitcoin will never work on a large scale

cerelenius: mjr you are a child probably 20 years old

cerelenius: who settles in btc on a larger scale? gambling sites, porn, strange "finance" operations etc.

mjr_: at no point have you ever shown me an example of how it is different to buy something with a dollar and a bitcoin

mjr_: you see a dog swimming, you think that dogs are aquatic creatures

chetty: I settle with btc, and I am not a criminal either

dignork: cerelenius i'm not a "cybercriminal" and for some transactions I settle for btc, problem?

cerelenius: bitcoin will always be a niche place

Vexual: cerelenius, can you give me a quote on dogs?

cerelenius: its not nerds meeting up with pennys underneath a tree

mjr_: it has changed a lot

cerelenius: bitcoin is too illiquid to function as anything other then a speculative tool, in terms of money in only functions as such in cybercrime for example because there are NO alternatives.

mjr_: i can picture a market for bitcoin that is not ililquid

cerelenius: thats what happens under a deflationary system

mjr_: regardless of whether it was issued by a govt, mined on a blockchain, or came out of my ass

MisterE: if it breaks 400 it's a rout

MisterE: oh will you 2 get a room already :p

mjr_: or a yen backed debt

mjr_: i can have a euro backed devt

Vexual: 700k and a fresh passport

cerelenius: you need a willing bidder

cerelenius: bitcoin you move the price with a tiny lot

mjr_: when i sell a lot of dollars for euros?

cerelenius: hence why it moves 40% in a day.

cerelenius: its not a liability

cerelenius: well yea it freezes up for a short term.

KRS-One: cerelenius: looks like it didnt break resistance, maybe we will indeed see a new low now

MisterE: it's over only a matter of time

mjr_: if i want a sandwich, i ask how many dollars

mjr_: and it works like a token

MisterE: not when the creator given them with a promise to pay back

mjr_: i treat it like a token

mjr_: you treat it like a "debt" and you will never be repayed

mjr_: and you obviously aren't smart enough to be a part of the convo

cerelenius: mjr your a tool.

mjr_: i want either A) a certain amount of bitocoin, or B) a certain number of dollars

mjr_: or buy a sandwich

mjr_: you haven't answered how empiracally this would be any different when trying to sell a car

mjr_: up a bit

cerelenius: misterE; LOL not a single bank in the US or europe has 10% currency reserves

cerelenius: mjr: yes its a form of check kiting

mjr_: so it is a big circle jerk

cerelenius: "reserve" means a tier 1 asset which is a US government bond

MisterE: since reserve requirements are a pittance

cerelenius: misterE; they can only write down a tiny % of it before they are insolvent.

Vexual: 4 mental patients walk into a bar

cerelenius: a bank can take loses on max 1-2% of total debt

mjr_: and you "forgive" that debt if i do you a favotr

cerelenius: because everything in nature has a beginning and an end

cerelenius: meaning there is a shortage of dollars

cerelenius: total debt + interest surpasses all available dollars at a given time

Vexual: youre broke, you can't afford to make a graph

cerelenius: misterE: btc is a commodity

cerelenius: its becuase of debt. theres always a shortage of dollars

cerelenius: thats how credit currencies have a bid

mjr_: ok, i buy a sandwhich

cerelenius: is make a tiny tiny %

MisterE: the soviet union was far better prepared for a crash than the US is

cerelenius: the end game is hyper deflation on a scale not scene in 500 years

cerelenius: MisterE: i hope im making sense to you because mjr is on a different planet.

Vexual: cerelenius, you're a two toned fuckstick

mjr_: you work for 100 a hour

mjr_: it is a piece of paper made by people

mjr_: so you are saying that we have a fully backed currency

cerelenius: they only buy printed dollars when a bank rqurests them

mjr_: is not a debt

mjr_: a printed dollar

mjr_: you said "every dollar is a debt, it can only be created through debt"

MisterE: I agree 2008 was a warning

cerelenius: 2008 was a shot across the bow, a warning of the future

cerelenius: hyperinflation under such a system is next to impossible, you can have hyperdeflation instead

MisterE: because you have a lot already Apocalyptic ?

Apocalyptic: see, that's a problem

cerelenius: you need a borrower on the other end

cerelenius: everytime new FRNs are to be printed, there has to be a posted asset

mjr_: i put in a book, " cerelenius owes me $5"

MisterE: ^ which is a mistake

mjr_: or rather...i should say that in our accounting system, a receivable is listed as an asset

mjr_: a debt is a "receivable" which is an asset

MisterE: yea it's called a stack of IOUs davout

MisterE: they print $ by adding zeros to a number on a computer

mjr_: are you saying it is physically impossible to print a dollar bill without the fed?

cerelenius: someone constantly needs them to repay a debt

cerelenius: thats why there is always a BID for dollars

cerelenius: every single dollar is a liability

mjr_: since the fundamental core concept of a debt is that it can be "redeemed"

mjr_: it cannot be a debt

mjr_: you cannot redeem a dollar for anything

mjr_: unless you are using that word in a completely differnt way than i think

mjr_: and a dollar is not a liability of anyone

cerelenius: mjr: a token is not a liability of someone

mjr_: it is a token

cerelenius: dabout: my point is bitcoin cannot function on a large scale without a bills of exchange system

mjr_: if you cannot trade it in for a fixed amount of something else...there is no difference to you

cerelenius: we have a credit money system

davout: cerelenius: by definition fiat money is a token that is assigned value because of a law, not because it represents a claim to anything

mjr_: it is a token

mjr_: then its not a debt

cerelenius: mjr: yea i agree its not redeemable, its like a 0day tbill