261300+ entries in 0.164s
mircea_popescu: human
tards wondered about greek fire for 12 centuries.
mircea_popescu: obv,
the dumb had something
to steal
the smart wanted.
there'd be no story otherwise.
mircea_popescu: anyway. prometeus stole from
the dumb
to give
to
the smart.
mircea_popescu: it's zeus, a sort of nero,
the overpowerful lucky bastard.
mircea_popescu: but anyway -
the greek idea of gods doesn't have
them as a sort of christian deity, omnipotent, all wise etc. it's not fucking allah.
Framedragger: true
that. goes
the extra way
to fuck women, metamorphosis and all, so i'll give him
that
tho
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so
the myth was reinterpreted, by later imbeciles, who don't even speak greek.
mircea_popescu: and gave it
to
the smart guys who
tohught
to pile all
the meat in
the smalelr pile.
mircea_popescu: on
the contrary - he stole it
to
the sort of retards who'd pick
the large pile of bones skins and fat
mircea_popescu: not really.
there's no record
that he went and gave it
to retards.
mircea_popescu: it... isn't. it fucking isn't.
the point of
technology is
the complete and utter oppression of idiots.
Framedragger: and gossipd without any auth whatsoever wouldn't really be
that? in all honesty, i should reread
the spec, which is probably outdated, and log search sucks, fml
mircea_popescu: i dunno when or why
the prevailing notion of "software" and "technology", at least in english and its dominions, became "it is for
to make ordinary people (ie, rank imbeciles) like gods!"
mircea_popescu: Framedragger so you do everyone
the favour of
taking out
the lazy "terrorist" groups ?
thank you ?
Framedragger: besides,
they'd get confused
themselves, what with deliberately no message authenticity; and we shall have a good
time. am i stretching here?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: how about i (an nsa employee, say) just make a filter which grabs all observed gossipd
traffic (packet
timing or w/e, and if it's an actually new
transmission protocol,
then supreme joy is me) and send it for further analysis. i shall assume
that while it's not certain which messages are legit and which are not,
the offending
t3rr0rist group is
too lazy
to
transmit proper false positives
to provide noise,
Framedragger: yes
this is lulzy and a disservice and i agree
the reputation is not insanely great.., so
to speak.
mircea_popescu: for instance by rejecting outliers in a set. what you're doing
then, in proper
terms, is saying "since we have all
this space left in
the hierarchy cube, how about we use it
to improve
the dataset while still pretending it's just a sheet"
mircea_popescu: in fact, it's even aware of
this ; and it has some (primitive, axe hewn) methods
to use
the proper space
to "improve" its data
mircea_popescu: but, importantly, statistics works on datapoints - which are each as much a datapoint as all
the others !
this is major.
Framedragger: maybe. and i agree
that without prototype difficult
to
talk of
this anyway
mircea_popescu: (note however
that "statistical models" are so horrible in doing simple
things such as "election outcome" prediction as
to not lend much credence
to
this
theory.)
mircea_popescu: it may be flattenable, and a large part of what we'll be doing is explore
those graphs etc, but atm
this is premature, we don't even have a prototype.
mircea_popescu: that's
the otp-likeness contemplated, you know
the place where
this is discussed in
the logs ?
Framedragger: (i am aware
that proper gossipd doesn't have
to run over internet)
Framedragger: btw wouldn't "nothing signed" gossipd reality actually be not "only among chosen clique" but rather "only chosen among clique [so, okay, not for all] plus whoever listens
to internet backbone including all
teh agencies"?
mircea_popescu: in short, i oppose
the socially destructuring, anti elitist and equalitarian nature of signatures.
mircea_popescu: gossipd does "for friends ears only". and
the only way
to make sure
that can't happen, si by signing
things. because once signed,
they're definitionally for everyone equally well.
mircea_popescu: it's not
that i'm against signatures or anything of
the sort. it's just
that i understand
their domain. an item is signed when
the auctorial intention is "for
this
to stand now and forever
to any and all who may come".
mircea_popescu: signatgures have
their utility.
they have been (perhaps deliberately, in any case stupidly) misused by
the usg.cypherpunk "movement".
Framedragger: semi-orthogonal (but not
too orthogonal): ditching
the conceptual level for a second and
thinking about mundane reality, would a new
transport layer even *work* given current internet infrastructure?
there are problems with ICMP
traffic on some ISPs (sure, ISPs should die anyway, and esp.
those i hear you say.)
this can be
tested
to some extent, hm.
PeterL: what keeps you from moving a signed message
thorugh gossipd?
mircea_popescu: (redundancy for v - meant strictly in
the sense of, an alternative
to moving
tarball by hand)
mircea_popescu: now,
taking a
tiny incremental step by providing redundancy for v while at
the same
time
trying a udp implementation si a very sensible move at
this juncture.
mircea_popescu: but all
this stuff aside, back
to
the important point here :
the "gossipd-like"
thing contemplated for moving signed material (ie, v stuff) around is very much a different beast from
the actual gossipd, which doesn't work on signed material ; presumably doesn't work on
tcp etc.
mircea_popescu: get some of
that lulzy "we know it's here but we can't
turn it off because red
tape" bonus going on.
mircea_popescu: in
the sense of how we implemented log bots
that work, on
the basis of whatever was
there before, which apparently didn't work, or at least didn't work as well or w/e.
mircea_popescu: if we have
to leave freenode before gossipd is ready we'll reimplement ircd.
mircea_popescu: what, you're going
to make a
tank ? "new from mercedes. six gun ports."
mircea_popescu: nobody afaik starts discussion of new car model with "Suppose
the islamists invade our plant"
mircea_popescu: (not
to mention - you brought it up, entirely ungermane
to
the discussion, so you can't now detrimentally rely on it.)
Framedragger: is rfc7413 even supported by any
tcp stack
tho? (inb4 all
tcp stacks must die!1 [not disagreeing in principle])
Framedragger: then
the argument does admittedly slide a little: yes okay,
this is great
that it can't be DoS'd
that easily when
the
time comes; and yet it still has
to parse multiple packets before it determines
that hey, i don't know
this fingerprint.
mircea_popescu: just because owner currently automated a hole into
the ship doesn't mean
that hole doesn't come with a pre-made hatch.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
that is an orthogonal concern which entirely does not belong in
this discussion.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: pull
the key. which it effectively does with
the `register` command
mircea_popescu: how would it send a challende encrypted
to a key it does not have ?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger i mean it already does
this lol. necessarily.
mircea_popescu: you still can't answer, for lack of a way
to form your answer.
Framedragger: ah, you mean
that it could restrict sending challenges
to gpg identities
that it *already* knows about (l1 / l2 / whatever)?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yes restate
the whole
thing. apparently
there's a knot somewhere.
mircea_popescu: it does currently extend
the courtesy of replying
to unknowns, but
this is not required.
mircea_popescu: how would you send otps
to check
to a person you don't know ?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-09: [12:36:29] <mircea_popescu> except a working model of 1 is already both deployed and
theoretically understood, as described above.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> but,
to briefly rewind, << and following. static linking, not dynamic linking. your "the mechanism described in mircea_popescu's sketch." symbol is not acceptabru.
mircea_popescu: i just dunno what you're saying starting 8 lines ago. "<asciilifeform> it could if you were both sybils
today."
mircea_popescu: i'd say it's actually "nothing
to all comers" guaranteedly, you can't break
this even if you want
to.