log☇︎
259600+ entries in 0.17s
asciilifeform: phf's bot looks to be knocked out ?
shinohai: im happy it didn't this time
shinohai: i know mine usually is the first to barf :D
trinque: shinohai: your bot has precisely zero to do with when it rejoins during netsplit.
shinohai: i win the most reliable bot award
trinque: freenode adding its 2 bitcents to the gossipd discussion.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [02:32:33] <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, trinque, Framedragger, et al ^
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#16 << very cool stuff re lighthoused, been following comments, will try to properly grok once i get some time and energy (~tomorrow). very neat work indeed
asciilifeform: the only computer program that qualifies to be thought of as an ideal object is one which fitsinhead.
asciilifeform: it is merely a real object that can be copied and teleported.
asciilifeform: the fundamental mistake of 'spec by gcc' is to consider a large computer program as an ideal object.
asciilifeform: just as folks allergic to cat often do not know that they are in fact allergic to a certain parasitic mite that lives in the animal's fur.
asciilifeform: granted, these have gone together inseparably for the entire history of programming.
asciilifeform: this is why i suspect that folks such as mircea_popescu are not allergic to the idea of a program specifying a concept, but of a concept that CAN ONLY BE specified by THIS HERE PROGRAM
asciilifeform: however an ideal object that is two+ heads wide is not a thing.
asciilifeform: a specification can exist as a real object (which is very painful, consider the standard kilogram block, or trb) or an ideal object.
asciilifeform: you get one, or you get the other, tertium non datur.
asciilifeform: the reason why we ~have~ spec-by-program is because it is the only actual alternative to fits-in-head.
asciilifeform: it will die with the last programmer.
asciilifeform: specification-by-program is probably one of those evils that is here to stay, like cancer and airplane crashes.
asciilifeform: (it 'optimizes' away essential security checks, as discussed in at least 2 past threads )
trinque: llvm will never actually implement c/c++ as currently "specified" by the existence of gcc
asciilifeform: well, they gotta hash and shit with ~something~, eh
asciilifeform: if i had to guess - i'd guess 'openssl'.
ben_vulpes: so then "no"
asciilifeform: ask them, then.
ben_vulpes: all of the block explorers!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: well where is it then ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't think the big-endianness is even in the protocol is it?
ben_vulpes: hard, yes. but consistency i think here will be fine.
asciilifeform: but to specify TWO byte orders in 1 protocol !
asciilifeform: to be fair i have nfi how to possibly escape from specifying byte order.
ben_vulpes: aight well in light of how they come in blocks in little-endian format i propose they also get rendered that way wtf
thestringpuller: simon says get the fuck up - pharoah monch
a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:55 ben_vulpes: is there any particular reason why everyone renders block hashes in big-endian format?
asciilifeform: if it turns out that it is impractical for one man to wrap his head around a cpp compiler, it is cpp that will have to vanish
asciilifeform: these are to go away. not be propped up.
asciilifeform: 'because no reasonable fella would ever try to write an ... !'
asciilifeform: one of those ill-fated 'de-facto standards', like gcc.
ben_vulpes: it is fairly commonly used by people actually flying things, yes.
asciilifeform: ( you do not, in point of fact, even need a digital computer; there were ODE solvers before the computer, and before the transistor. )
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if we did not go to highschool and did not learn how an ODE is solved.
asciilifeform: if we make one, it will be from 0, and not from them.
asciilifeform: at this point i have ~0 interest in heathen flying machine controllers.
asciilifeform: i did not even bother to look, ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i know 0 about it, it was simply mentioned in thread.
PeterL: hrm, not that, let me try again
asciilifeform: i'd say yes. but ask mircea_popescu when he wakes up, iirc he doesn't even like the idea of a scoopbot
a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 16:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#225 << if you think that is what spec looks like you must be new here!
a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 17:26 asciilifeform: PeterL: in order to work correctly, this bot would have to know about every other bot, neh ?
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1541189 << things like this ☝︎
asciilifeform: PeterL: in order to work correctly, this bot would have to know about every other bot, neh ? ☟︎
scoopbot: AdaPilot - The Open Source Ada-ARM Autopilot Project
ben_vulpes: http://discuss.ardupilot.org/t/ardupilot-and-dronecode/11295 << "Due to their overwhelming desire to be able to make a proprietary autopilot stack the Platinum members staged what can only be called a coup. They removed all top level open source projects from DroneCode, leaving only their own nominees in the Technical Steering Committee."
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119078 << seems like we're back to start, eh.
PeterL: what is the procedure for gettiing a bot voiced? I rewrote scoopbot to get titles of links, do I need to get it talking to deedbot/gpg decrypting things too?
asciilifeform: rather than from same impracticality as 'the 10-34 thread is this here screw in washington'
asciilifeform: the impracticality of 'code as specification' is wholly from the nonexistence of sane programming systems
mircea_popescu: this idea of "code is specification" is on about the same level of intellectual sophistication as "definition by example". ie, something morons with schoolhouse jobs do.
mircea_popescu: maybe ; but a spec is not defined as "can mechanically be transformed into a working program".
asciilifeform: any statement that can be mechanically transformed into a working program, is a program.
asciilifeform: (if it were an adequate and total description, it would BE the proggy)
asciilifeform: i'm not convinced that specs have been invented yet.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#225 << if you think that is what spec looks like you must be new here! ☟︎
asciilifeform: well yes, niven (and iirc it was niven, otherwise unremarkable hack) did not pull the idea out of his arse ex nihilo.
mircea_popescu: technology breeds differentiation. pretty sure this is a stable node ; so they'll exist alright.
asciilifeform: y'know, the parallel greece that actually ran 'by the book' or however.
mircea_popescu: ie, that exact lack of agency that itches lafond.
mircea_popescu: an' i imagine breeding fantasy is when she fantasizes about being tied in a barn, fed, impregnated etc. like a human domestic animal mix.
mircea_popescu: there is nothing contiguous in the present upon which to build future contiguity.
asciilifeform: people in the sense of continuity with the present whoever. vs 'giant cockroaches that replace us' or similar.
mircea_popescu: "I'm a 23 year old female who believes in all things kinky. I have major breeding fantasies, and have had multiple children already, all whom I have given up for adoption. I'm helping the world and being a slut all at the same time." << deeze internets.
mircea_popescu: these two are only confused in the mind of the derpy englisher trying to flatter britannia.
mircea_popescu: depends. do you mean "people" in the sense of monogamy-beer-and-watching-sports, "what my daddy told me" etc ? or do you mean people in the sense of, whoever is on the land is the people ?
mircea_popescu: when you're discussing the earth you're discussing geological time. nobody cares about people.
asciilifeform: geological time./
mircea_popescu: with time, it will, yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nature is very stable. recall all the inept drama about how "chernobyl is permadestroyed" ? people like to flatter themselves.
mircea_popescu: then piling up two millenia of advances you get almost 1, about .8 pre-industrialization ; and our current ~8 post, via railroad, refrigeration, sanitation, etc.
asciilifeform: well this is the usual picture, but it presupposes intact systems.
mircea_popescu: riding cattle herders, like the cowboys, or Gingis Khan's men) about 0.04 or so ; and ancient world agriculturalists can get as high as 0.2 people per square kilometer.
mircea_popescu: anyway - the great agricultural jump between 2k and 1k bc almost doubled world population (from about 60-70 to about 110-120 mn) ; before that, the great move from subsistence hunter/gathering to pastoral lifestyle cca 7k/5k tripled it, from about 7ish to about 20ish. the earth was throughout the same 500mn sq km ; and so you can say that truly primitive men will live about 0.01 to the sq km ; mongoloids (ie, you know, horse
mircea_popescu: us and argentina have a lot more in common than the usian would like to think ; certainly much closer to argentina than to europe.
asciilifeform: quite possibly they will fall back to '100k cellar dwellers in stalingrad'
asciilifeform: post-industrial shitholes do not necessarily cleanly fallback to '100k pygmies'
mircea_popescu: argentina is close to 3mn sqkm, so you're looking at possibly even 100k.
asciilifeform: i meant the q of 'how many can survive on forest rodent and cicada' etc.
asciilifeform: at any rate, this will be tested experimentally.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but where's grass there's rodents and bugs. people can live off dung, rodents and bugs.
mircea_popescu: the grass is still there.
mircea_popescu: born tupi ; will die tupi. with the reed skirts and all.
asciilifeform: dunno that this is still there to be reverted to.
mircea_popescu: there's no pressure here. they'll just revert to subsistence hunting/gathering.
mircea_popescu: think, re the "rediscover sickle and work", that sickle is a necessary product of very intensively worked lands in like europe. it's trying to adjust to pressure.
mircea_popescu: reversion to mean is a bitch.
mircea_popescu: what hole did tall, slender, fine nosed egyptians fall into ?
mircea_popescu: i do not know. but gone they are.
asciilifeform: is what i'd like to know.
asciilifeform: aha! what hole did they fall into ?
mircea_popescu: which is how and why the us annexed florida.