258000+ entries in 1.812s
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. However I'm trying to approach this from the point of view of
a user.
moiety: speaking of nerd sex, karpeles actually once tweeted about how being
a nerd in japan was much better as he had talked
a japanese chick into marrying him lol
ninjashogun: I don't know how an offline wallet will know its balance. For example, if it stays offline and the account receives
a transfer for someone, how will it get updated?
moiety: ok, imma just head off to get
a BTC to keep for my 2014 lipgloss purchases .. and perhaps an eyeliner, should i need one brb
ninjashogun: Oh....if in all the above you guys meant "you're not going to explain bitcoin Qua Investment to
a newbie, and then get them to buy bitcoin" then that's probably true :). I wasn't thinking of it as an investment just then.
mircea_popescu: not that it ever was much of
a thing, but for the sake of lulz.
deadweasel: darknetmarkets pop up and down on
a weekly basis
ninjashogun: deadweasel - fair enough, but I was just addressing "ninjashogun, no one buys bitcoin to buy things" - though to be fair ThickAsThieves probably meant to say that as
a generalization, which is true.
ninjashogun: deadweasel - okay. So what happens when YOU explain bitcoin to
a newbie?
ninjashogun: deadweasel - what's wrong with the answer to your question "explain
a bitcoin to
a a newbie and then convince them to buy some" - bitcoin is just
a currency like euros or pounds, except you don't need to involve banks, it works more like cash. If you want to buy something in pounds (let's say you visit London) you get some pounds at an exchange (using dollars). if you want to buy something using bitcoins, you get some bi
ninjashogun: deadweasel, sorry I wasn't clear enough. The difficulty with 'buying'
a currency is that people don't think of 'buying'
a dollar, or euro, or pound. It's
a difficult concept for most people. People think of using currency, not buying it.
mircea_popescu: turns out you can rent hotel rooms w/o credit cards just fine. provided you wear
a suit and your gangster roll is larger than the receptionists' penis
deadweasel: honestly, i can't follow your ramblings at present, ninjashogun, how could you possibly explain it to
a newbie?
mircea_popescu: did in the us, also. never had
a problem with it, contrary to what people say
FabianB: mircea_popescu: that was
a personal statement, not country statistics
deadweasel: ninjashogun, explain
a bitcoin to
a a newbie and then convince them to buy some.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, but why such
a strong statement above? "bitcoin really isnt for the masses"
ninjashogun: I mean as an analogy for
a physical wallet with cash in it.
ninjashogun: So we've identified two differences (1) transactions are final (2) there is
a history of transactions somewhere. Is there anything else that would be
a conceptual hurdle for everyone using bitcoin?
ninjashogun: But this is true with
a wallet as well. When you hand someone cash you don't expect to be able to unhand them that cash.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I'm not sure why bitcoin can't be for the masses.
A wallet is an extremely close analogy with
a physical wallet. The only major difference is the history. Isn't it?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I guess I had
a different market in mind, not the true bottom third of the Pyramid of society.
ThickAsThieves: i told her i wouldnt sell to them because theyd still need
a wallet anyway
mircea_popescu: paypal is not
a website, and the government is not some twerps.
ThickAsThieves: last night
a couple asked me the easiest way to buy bitcoin, I said Coinbase, you just need to enter your checking account info, and the wife was all, I'm not putting my checking account info in some website!
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so for their purposes, it might as well not exist. For example, for the purposes of most people in the world, bitcoin doesn't actually exist (theyu can't buy it at
a western union currency exchange, or know how to install software for it.)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I've always heard that if you make things for idiots, you will always have
a huge market, since most people don't use most technologies.
ninjashogun: benderp, sorry!! I was very interested in your response, just
a bit delayed. I'm doing
a few different things.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform do you believe there is
a hardware hole in most mobile devices?
moiety: lol "inspired by
a turtles skeleton" -- i have *always* thought of beautiful cars when viewing turtles
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, ok. I'm not saying you'd need to pursue it. Just like I'm not saying you should build
a shiny gui on
a Unix utility and sell it to mac users for $49.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I was just thinking how mircea's current insights would imply that that is what you could actually sell to dumb users for
a huge markup (e.g. $199), since they know what
a leather wallet is and know that bitcoins are money. and that's it.
moiety: ThickAsThieves: i think you might be right but i feel only at
a trinket level?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I thought that the signing thing was
a natural step away from an offline wallet?
ninjashogun: so if you could make it so dumb that the user just thinks of it "as
a wallet" with "bitcoins in it" and takes it out to spend from it.
ninjashogun: It seems for the bitcoin device that you guys were building (asciilifeform) the real money is in making it SO dumb that the user doesn't have to understand how bitcoin, signing, or
a wallet works.
moiety: even more of
a side note -- i think it's
a real shame loosing the individuality and decorativeness of design :( cars is
a good example!
mircea_popescu: even the cars look increasingly more like they came out of
a vulva.
mircea_popescu: moiety i would say in present day considerations shoving the items is more of
a concern
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, they pay extra for
a GUI, instead of enough for someone to do it properly.
benderp: $20/each for
a hundred little gui utilities that'd be
a 1-line
ninjashogun: the top one is
a good example. Dreamweaver.
ThickAsThieves: it happened because visual design became
a blue collar job
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to
a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that
a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than
a frilly Victorian one...) /// Nonsense.
ninjashogun: benderp - it may have been
a bad example. I mean if you survey the software that's specifically targeted at Mac users.
benderp: everyone i know who can afford
a macintosh pays an accountant if they're not on salary, ninjashogun.
ninjashogun: if you look at mac software ,
a lot of it is aimed at letting people do things that ordinarily you would hire
a professional for, and not at
a professsional level.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, you can also see
a lot of that in Apple computers. For example, they are supposed to be very "easy to use" (yet are expensive). But this hides the fact that
a lot of people use it to run accounting software that's also dumbed down to their level, and
a load of similar extra-expensive things that let them manage their lifestyle. It's becaues they make enough money to buy Macs and to buy expensive dumbed-do
mircea_popescu: (Side point- Art Deco's fascination with streamlining household objects whose actual wind resistance is irrelevant proved popular because levelling incomes led for the first time to
a group of people who could afford good design but not household servants. It seems that
a streamlined Art Deco lamp is easier to dust than
a frilly Victorian one...)
ninjashogun: davout - but you can't just call it debt if they're not going to do it. For example, the fact that Python 3 isn't source code compatible with Python 2 isn't technical debt that they're postponing. It's
a design decision.
davout: ninjashogun: "improving their OS" and "creating
a new solid OS" sounds like
a difference in degree, not in kind
ninjashogun: davout - that is
a fairer example. Their backwards compatibility is
a 'debt' because they are actually taking it on as
a commitment. It's clearly
a slightly lower debt than they would have if they had
a goal of creating
a real operating system like Unix and BSD's
ninjashogun: davout - on the other hand if your prototype is pyrite and you're prototyping
a gold bracelet (the way many startups prototype an MVP then intend to build scallability) then it can be considered
a "debt".
davout: ninjashogun: sounds like
a point
ninjashogun: davout - just like, if you make
a bracelet out of pyrite, you do not have the "debt" of whatever it would take to re-make in Gold. You just have
a pyrite bracelet.
moiety: ninjashogun, dear, when you begin by talking about incompetence of managers and people that make food... you cannot really switch to
a whole company that is comprised of millions of them. #consistency
Perlboy: just make sure you price in
a few hundred firewalls
ninjashogun: davout - that's silly :) The term "technical debt" is an analogy, i.e. you get features now but at
a commitment of future time. If that future time is not
a real commitment, then there is no actual debt involved.
davout: ninjashogun: just because you're never going to repay it doesn't change the nature of
a debt, it's still
a debt
ninjashogun: davout - I don't think it's technical debt if it never needs to be fixed. Windows was never refactored onto
a rock-hard Unix base with proven open technology stacks. Nor will it ever be. You can't call it debt if you're never going to do it.
ninjashogun: moiety I think windows is
a fair example because everyone here knows hte obvious ways in which it sucks :)
moiety: i totally agree with mike_c i think it would be
a really interesting good thread ninjashogun go for it
Perlboy: ninjashogun, no they are typically promoted either
a) Because they stroked egos and didn't create any issues [or covered them up to people who would be concerned] or b) Were found to be incompetent but were stuck in the organisation so were promoted to
a position where they couldn't fuck things up
benderp: ah davout thou art
a scholar
moiety: ninjashogun: yes. go work in
a hospital or government agency. competence in your definition = arselicking and shagging someone higher up
Perlboy: ninjashogun, 99% of managers are
a case of shit floating.
ninjashogun: benderp - maybe
a few years ago I would have said that ;-)
benderp: no, you're
a budding Jobs, right ninjashogun?
ninjashogun: I'm not Icahn, there to criticize
a $74B company (eBay) when he couldn't run
a company any better.
Perlboy: mircea_popescu, yeah kiwi's are
a bit more open
ninjashogun: I thnk
a bunch of companies "suck" and are "idiots". I hate paypal and wish it would die. But I don't actually SAY that, or actually SAY they're incompetent.
mircea_popescu: Perlboy it's
a complicated matter. nz people weren't nearly as obnoxious, but anyway.
dexX7: workers = incompetent sounds like
a rude prejudice
ninjashogun: no they can't. You just said only
a vanishingly thin percentage of "everyone" is competent.
mircea_popescu: dorks have their own shortener to paste their links about how
a spurious ceo is ending cancer by shoving things up his butt live on cam.