258000+ entries in 0.165s
phf: mircea_popescu: what would be
the correct approach?
mircea_popescu: phf
that some boys
tried
to
talk
to girls and didn't get anywhere is scarcely an argument.
mircea_popescu: and in general -
the controlling point here is
the
two-jews-in-shitter joke.
phf: but some people ~also~
tried silk-lined wellingtons, and
those are even worse.
trinque, once he decides
to read clisp source code, will realize
that
the
thing is ~unrecoverable~ under
the weight of C-specific issues
mircea_popescu: phf management, if half competent, could have spared you
the need for hindsight.
this is evidently wrong.
phf: hindsight demonstrates
that
this might not be
the best approach, because locals keep dropping
the palanquin, etc.
mircea_popescu: ie, building coke machine for itself,
then wondering at results.
phf: well cmucl's approach is
to hire some locals
to carry a palanquin
mircea_popescu: it is way
the fuck better
than wearing silk-slippers-with-ten-foot-pole-extending-from-the-sole-with-boot-foot-at-other-end "bootrsrap"
phf: in
the
town of shithole everyone has
to wear knee high boots because roads are made of shit, if you want
to do business in
that
town, would wearing knee high boots, while you prefer silk slippers make any kind of sense?
mircea_popescu: it's self evidently nonsense, "my dream girl does not have any center of gravity defined for her
tits. i'd like
to meet her."
mircea_popescu: without
this -
there'd be no c, just oddly "bootstrapped" nonsense on
top of who
the fuck even knows.
phf: mircea_popescu: so in order
to bridge
the gap between
the
two you need knowledge of both patterns. cmucl has knowledge of its own, it doesn't also want
to have knowledge of all
the shit
that goes into gcc
mircea_popescu: and yes, evidently A LOT of asm by hand will go into
this. guess what ?
this is exactly what
the fuck
the early c people who made c possible in
the sense of having rms hijack it 20 years later did.
phf: mircea_popescu: cmucl's assembly has a different pattern in order
to support all
the
tricky-in-c-trivial-in-lisp code behaviors
phf: c-machine assembly level has a certain shape
to it. when you write int foo { bar(); } an assembly of a certain pattern gets spit out
mircea_popescu: no, i get it, "vneumann architecture is not lisp friendly". spare me,
the vagina is not cock friendly.
phf: well, c-machine assembly level is not particularly good, but it's not guaranteed
to be consisten either
phf: because on assembly level you still have
things like where
things go, how you address
those
things and how you call subprocesses
phf: mircea_popescu: an assembly
that result out of compilation is
the problem
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gcc produces opcodes out of c. if
tll can't produce optcodes out of lisp,
the problem is lisp.
mircea_popescu: you need
the following : a) an item which inputs lisp
text and outputs opcodes ; b) and sits down on x86 bare metal. clearly
to produce a running isntance of
this item you will need a running instance of
this item. nevertheless : you do not need c, nor any "bootstrapping" outside of
this.
phf: because gnat is built with gnat is related exclusively
to .core
mircea_popescu: yes, one instance of your machine-lisp running on x86 will be required
to compile a machine instance of your lisp. so ?
phf: asciilifeform: nah,
that's not actually it
though
mircea_popescu: if
the processor gets a push,
the processor will push. what are you bootstrapping ?
mircea_popescu: i do not understand
this bootstrapping. what bootstrapping ?
phf: mircea_popescu:
there's machine code in cmucl,
the problem is bootstrapping.
mircea_popescu: exactly same way c learned. not like
the fucking stack works in c ffs.
mircea_popescu: so no, no hardware hack. learn how
to make machinecode lisp yes ?
mircea_popescu: phf what i don't understand is
this bizarre notion
that c has some sort of priviledged relation with asm, which is and remains
the only hardware language.
phf: "whole machine" approach was jammed into a c vm layer. but if we were
to actually attempt a lisp on hardware hack, cmucl's approach would involve considerably less complexity
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 02:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can't speak for others, but i've never even ~heard~ of any of
these folk, nor read
their spew, until
this year.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543401 << sbcl codebase ~is~ cmucl codebase, so all
the same people who wrote above wrote majority of sbcl. newman's work in adding sane bootstrapping is reproducable by doing early diffs and perhaps should come as vpatch on
top of cmucl since it's particularly clean. but here's
the
thing,
the way cmucl does bootstrapping is borrowed directly from a lisp machine, and breaks down precisely because
the
☝︎ mircea_popescu: because yes, metals are rarer
than shit much like few men, many redditards.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
this "purple under a blacklight" stuff is pretty lulzy. "a blacklight" ? what wavelength is
this black.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 09:27 adlai: ahaha, review of jaynes's book: "The weight of original
thought in it is so great
that it makes me uneasy for
the author's well-being:
the human mind is not built
to support such a burden." - D.C. Stove, in Encounter (from
http://www.julianjaynes.org/bicameralmind.php )
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 07:59 gabriel_laddel: Actual LSD will glow purple under a blacklight, unlike all other compounds people attempt
to use in its place.
mircea_popescu: and yes, waiting
tables IS how you start a whore career ; no exceptions. all waitresses are apprentices of
the
trade.
adlai: ahaha, review of jaynes's book: "The weight of original
thought in it is so great
that it makes me uneasy for
the author's well-being:
the human mind is not built
to support such a burden." - D.C. Stove, in Encounter (from
http://www.julianjaynes.org/bicameralmind.php )
☟︎ adlai: phf: speaking of 2nd-personality-gods, have you/rfriend ever heard of jaynes' bicameral mind
theory?
adlai: sorry but
that's silly. "real shot glasses should be 45mL. anything larger is probably going
to put you in
the cooler for
the night"
gabriel_laddel: Blotter paper with actual doses on it should be perforated so
the area
takes up about 1/8th of your
thumbnail. Anything larger is probably going
to put you in a psyc ward.
gabriel_laddel: Actual LSD will glow purple under a blacklight, unlike all other compounds people attempt
to use in its place.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:16 phf: psychotic episode, later diagnosed as bipolar after ~~1 year of weekly mushroom use. split personality after one mushroom use (guy believes
that
the second person inside of him is god). psychotic episode after weed/lsd combination. obviously all diagnosed and hospitalized at one point or another
phf: to continue on
this evening's drug
theme, we have gabriel_laddel,
take it away, gabriel
a111: Logged on 2015-08-29 04:24 phf: biggest disappointment of my schools years,
turns out
that "flea balloon" idea doesn't quite work
trinque: fix it when I am further along
this
trail of gentoo
tears
adlai: lol, neither ratings nor wot appear in
that
there help!
trinque: did you read
that
there help
adlai: closing
thought - is
there a way
to get deedbot
to barf all ratings somebody has made, other
than enumerating all nicks present in
the wot?
deedbot: adlai updated rating of phf from 2
to 3 << another one bots
the lisp
adlai: !!rate phf 3 another one bots
the lisp
adlai: !!rate phf another one bots
the lisp
adlai: obviously
there are exceptions in environments where speech is impossible (language barrier, noise club, etc) but i'm gonna bbl as well, reviewing math in anticipation of next month's classes
trinque: the
trouble of not choosing your gossipd-node peerings wisely
adlai: oh, words are also useful for sex.
these days if you sex without words first, you don't pass peer review.
adlai: well, job. but it happened, and lasted for about as long as
their money did.
adlai has had jobs where
the obscene bulk of his produced work was words
adlai: ahaha i like ben_vulpes's definition for
the use of words
trinque: or we would be counting authors as madmen
too
trinque: rather, one
that is figurative enough
to enter into
the insanity
thread
a111: Logged on 2015-08-29 14:35 asciilifeform:
turn it all
the way down - you get a housewife