ninjashogun: benderp 5 btc for an hour seems a bit steep :) that's $3000 per hour or a daily rate of... $24,000 - or a monthly rate of... $600,000.

ninjashogun: I'll pay your backtax on unseemly behavior (along with my apologies). I have a better grasp of the channel dynamics here.

ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, so the idea is that people know that there is a small chance they have an opportunity to invest at an early stage in the next "monster.com", and this would be a small incentive to upload their profile for some equity.

ninjashogun: benderp - I would have to be very very lucky to get an MVP up in a weekend; I'd have to know exactly what I would want on it, and it would have to be very limited scope.

ninjashogun: benderp - it doesn't just take a weekend. Part of what I'm doing is the ideation portion. For example I'm soliciting mirceau's feedback on just one aspect right now.

ninjashogun: so rather than raise a traditional angel round of investment, you directly pay for the users, who "know" they are the product, to upload. Having 10,000 senior, lead, etc, technical profiles, is worth a substantial amount for the company, as well as enabling b2b deals etc.

ninjashogun: So, the idea is that the first 500 qualified profiles (full name, highly technical with CV, and in a major market - e.g. San Francisco, New York, London) - would get a 2.5% fully diluted equity in the company. The next 1500 profiles get 2.5%. And the following 8000 profiles get 5%.

ninjashogun: So I would solve this via another fact. People, especially highly technical people, know that if "you are not paying for a product, you ARE the product".

ninjashogun: benderp - I thought I read that he took a large BTC investment, for one thing.

ninjashogun: and it would not have job ads in the beginning. It's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem.

ninjashogun: If I put an MVP I code in a weekend online, and put it on hackernews and maybe reddit, it would not have profiles in the beginning.

ninjashogun: So, the site is going to accept profiles from people (similar to LinkedIn). This sets up a chicken-and-egg problem because people would only upload a profile if htere is something in it for them, and in the beginning there owuld not be a big value proposition on the site.

ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I was very highly impressed by the way in which you funded your site, and I was interested in your thoughts on a funding model I am working on for the jobs website that I mentioned to you earlier. (Based on a back-end skills graph that knows that, for example, C# is close to C++ and Java, but very far from embedded electronics design.)

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you've brought up good points about drawbacks to a mass-adoption card that is a lukewarm bitcoin wallet accepted directly by merchants. You are right, and htose are real.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I find some of what you have said useful. I wouldn't adopt the tone of enlightening a stone-age man, as I have a lot of experience in several areas that also make my background interesting. we can simply have a conversation you know :)

ninjashogun: That doesn't mean that ATM's aren't MASSIVELY useful, even though they are a flawed architecture.

ninjashogun: it means it's a braindead architecture. it shouldn't be possible.

ninjashogun: The existence of this: https://www.google.com/search?q=atm+card+skimmer proves that ATM's are architecturally braindead. If a vulnerability vector like this existed even in theory, it would invalidate use of ATM's at foreign, unknown locations.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, okay look I get that it's kind of braindamaged. ATM cards are also inherently extremely braindamaged - and loads of people have been ripped off by card swipers, false things they put their card into that is in front of a real ATM.

ninjashogun: ? The product you linked? So that it escrows your secret and your secret doesn't make it to a file on your PC or your PC memory...

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, you oculdn't determine exactly what the micro does with any amount of money short of a multimilion dollar lab, but if you make reasonable assumptions (such as commodity components not being a highly engineered replacement) you can verify its operation for <$100 in equipment.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, (I don't think this is a good use of the word "just"). But it answers your question regarding what is inside.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't like to say it but it's "just" a single-board module around a microcontroller that is a usb device

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because he could not patent it to protect his R&D research into it. It's a somewhat tough problem due to the very very fine sizes involved, and also the need to have a very low cost of goods if oyu are going to sell it as a plastic cafrd. There's no model that I can think of that would support this.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, for example mircea_popescu could probably build a physical card that is a "lukewarm wallet" as you put it, he would have the funds, but I don't think he could get his R&D investment back - it would be money thrown away.

ninjashogun: mike_c - No, I don't have any interest in building a device like that. The only way it would be feasible for a single person who has not made a substantial exit in another company, is if it were strongly patentable. Idon't think it is.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, nobody here (or anywhere) has any architectural insights on making the philosopher's stone, or cold fusion, a reality.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform - anyone who has an oscilloscope would not have to use a naked eye :) You can expect someone to have a magnifying lense ($0.50) if they have an oscilloscope ($100)

ninjashogun: but a combination of both does wonders. I would say we hit on several key insights in this conversation - that are also actionable. It might be very hard to make a reality, but at least we know the market is there.

ninjashogun: this has been an interesting conversation. Yes, it's not easy to manufacture. I don't know how much those chips do when powered on but I doubt it's enough to do whatever a lukewarm wallet would need to.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if you took the architectural advantages of a chip'n'pin, and had it in a different form factor (not a card) then people wouldn't have started using it.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I meant it (obviously) as a metaphor. Chip'n'pin works totally differently on a fundamnetal architectural level, from a card with a magnetic stripe.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it needs to look like a card because that's how people were tricked into using a more secure system before. :) (specifically, chip'n'pin)

ninjashogun: I think that's a very good idea, moiety, and if you targeted the chip'n'pin form factor (looks like a card) sold with a networked home reader, you could sell them as a plug-in solution to merchants. I'm not 100% sure how card processing works, but it may be possible to piggy-back on that system and let merchants use it as though it were card, meanwhile the back-end processor (your company?) or an intermediate networked de

ninjashogun: then its readers would be connected to the bitcoin network instead of to a bank network.

ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, if you moved trezor into the form factor of an ATM card with a PIN, and using the same technology - then it would be interesting.

ninjashogun: So in this sense the physical bitcoin 'wallet' would be a smart card with a PIN. It would NOT know its balance. However, people are very used to this mode of money use.

ninjashogun: The issue then would be that the only conceptually accurate device hte users could think of like a physical wallet, would have to be hot all of the time.