log☇︎
250500+ entries in 0.164s
asciilifeform: this gedankenexperiment strikes me as quite similar to the one where you 'defeat' 2nd law of thermo. by dumping heat into a black hole, and similar.
mircea_popescu: it is. in order for you to get the whole set you must a) break rsa keys as numerous as the whole set and b) magically intercept all communications, even those happening outside of any set that includes you.
asciilifeform: crypto that dun work inside a 100% surrounded castle is not crypto.
mircea_popescu: this is a stronger guarantee than what rsa offers, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: except you can never know that total set.
asciilifeform: if you know the total set of A-asked-B, you can put bounds on what was done.
mircea_popescu: from the fact that A asks B to p-add P1 and P1 you can not distinguish whether P1 is being multiplied or added. that you can't distinguish between these two means you have 0 bits, not > 0 bits.
mircea_popescu: you present to yourself that you do, because you wish to. but in practice, you do not.
asciilifeform: it isn't that i can say, with 100% certainty, that you multiplied; it is that i have != 0 bits of info re what you might be doing.
mircea_popescu: but you can't know that i'm multiplying
asciilifeform: (and we still have not arrived at the question of how to branch)
asciilifeform: how not ? if i know that you delegated a total of 3 ops, i know that your multiplicand is <= 3.
asciilifeform: aite. (i dun even dispute that a scheme where multiple parties are used for obfuscatory/smoke purposes ~can be useful~ - but it is not crypto in the normal sense. stego, perhaps.)
mircea_popescu: this is a very abstruse spoke off an interesting discussion. i dun really want to follow it. can we get back to the point ?
asciilifeform: would you still think that rsa were strong, if it sufficed to, say, collect 90% of the ciphertext that's left your house, to derive the privkey ?
asciilifeform: this is rather like the 'send the new key and signature in one shot' thread. crypto that dun work if the enemy watches both of your hands, ain't crypto.
asciilifeform: well they know that there were 3 additions.
mircea_popescu: don't CALL THINGS THINGS. show. don't tell. this isn't bad fanfic hour.
asciilifeform: if you're locked in a room with'em, and see all of the steps, they know the 3.
asciilifeform: this is a card trick, not crypto.
mircea_popescu: i decrypt tty and have my 9.
mircea_popescu: he reports tty
mircea_popescu: i ask trinque to add fgh to qwe
mircea_popescu: i ask you to add fgh to fgh. you come back with qwe
mircea_popescu: let's try once more. so, I want to multiply 3 by 3. suppose the encrypted form of 3 is fgh.
asciilifeform: read. several times.
asciilifeform: ~how many times~ to 'add C1' ??
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what you're on about. again : i want to multiply C1 by C2. I fire up the UCI, i ask C2 processes to add C1 to the result of the previous process adding C1 to the result of the...
mircea_popescu: what's the problem though ?
mircea_popescu: if my job is to obtain C1 * C2 I will chain it : ask A to produce P1 + P1 ; ask B to add P1 to his result. ask C to add P1 to that result and so on.
asciilifeform: you cannot turingate with this, alone.
asciilifeform: homomorphic-under-addition just means that you can take C1, C2, encrypted ints P1, P2, and get C3, encrypted sum, that decrypts later to the correct sum of P1+P2
mircea_popescu: explain this to me ?
mircea_popescu: then you could construct all other math from this
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 18:15 asciilifeform: in other vintage lulz, https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/surreptitiously.html#c1746484 << 'little birds' tell me that this actually happened. but no proof. anyone got electron microscope and too much free time ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557132 << guess why "whitening" is so important for the imperials. ☝︎
asciilifeform: paillier adds, that's all it does.
asciilifeform: (which is to say, are actual branches, visible to the naked eye, based on the outcome of the magic box)
asciilifeform: and the branches take place 'in plaintext'.
asciilifeform: 'this multiplies, based on this-here conjecture, we suspect it to be strong...'
asciilifeform: nah, it 'solves' the same way all of the imbeciles in darpa's homomorphotron pig trough 'solved.'
asciilifeform: (i was only able to see 'solution' from the shithub code, the paper is everywhere paywalled. and this somehow passes as a 'source' for pediwik et al..)
asciilifeform: problem is that paillier dun multiply. or turingate at all.
asciilifeform: based on the most obvious scheme, that i toyed with as a student, paillier (see oooooold l0gz)
asciilifeform: in re thread from coupla days ago, i was somewhat surprised to discover that a recent homomorphatron scam, 'cryptoleq', is now promoted in a buncha places, incl. pediwikia, ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_instruction_set_computer#Cryptoleq and probably elsewhere ) .
mircea_popescu: ex post facto ? that's not much of a distinction.
mircea_popescu: i am very much interested in this method, because i guess it could be extended to distinguish malicious from stupid slavegirls
mircea_popescu: how do you aim to extract difference between crackpot and charlatan from examination of physical reality ?
asciilifeform: but with the physical props of the chumpatron.
asciilifeform: 0 to do with 'inner selves'
trinque: is the timecube guy not lying?
trinque: what does what he believes in "his true self" matter?
mircea_popescu: there is a difference if and only if the difference can be shown.
asciilifeform: eh back to the pickpockets; there is a difference between crackpot and charlatan.
mircea_popescu: the department of "here's words, they don't mean anything"
asciilifeform: 'Urbit is a total scamcoin. It's 100% premined TLDR: yeah. But at least it's not the DAO.'
deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2016/the-best-things-in-eulora-are-grimy/ << The Whet - The Best Things in Eulora are Grimy
asciilifeform: 'TLDR: all of computing is a hoax. You can't compare a hoax to nothing. You can only compare it to all the other hoaxes.'
asciilifeform: i wonder, did they actually import american hardware, or contracted to have own, 'industria argentina' dieboldtrons birthed ?
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 16:01 asciilifeform: ^ argentina mandates diebold voting machine and proclaims that publication of flaws is punishable
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557039 << this was a major point of contention during previous elections. guy published (ridiculous, web based xss) flaw in their voting thing, everyone threw a hissy fit ☝︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, if they have a controversy it means they exist rite ?
mircea_popescu: anyway. that the matriarchy always builds some sort of reddit, which is to say the female hujra, pointless-blather-house is much of a historical necessity ; much like how the matriarchy's annoyance at ~what trump represents~ necessarily expressed itself in terms of fantastic "rape".
asciilifeform: ( apparently mr mold was ordered by handlers to counter-attack, http://urbit.org/posts/objections )
asciilifeform: http://blog.jim.com/crypto/against-urbit << poor heathens dance around the elephant
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sometimes i suspect you might have been the only one at your kindergarten :)
asciilifeform: afaik we all here went to kindergarten, read of herr nietzsche's slave morality, etc..
mircea_popescu: meanwhile patriarchy is an arrangement among the best in society, who are strong, inconsequential, and careless. they tend to spend a lot of time doing, which is purpose without speech, and dedicate themselves to raping the women and tearing down anything taller than themselves.
mircea_popescu: and since we're on it, let's define terms. matriarchy - an arrangement built among the worst in society, who are weak, inconsequential, ambitious and envious. they tend to spend a lot of time gossiping - which is speech without purpose - and dedicate themselves to a very pedestrian sort of magico-technology, aiming to protect, their worthless flesh as well as their miserable progeny. this necessarily decays into a quest for c
asciilifeform: 'tischgespräche im führerhauptquartier' and other sources strongly suggest that ~their~ airplane - was of straw.
asciilifeform: that cargo cultists build 'airplane', does not show that airplane is a scam.
mircea_popescu: and since it's been mentioned, let it be said i'm rather suspicious of this fuhrerprinzip business also. nazis WERE socialists, by their own lights, and the fact that they desired a matriarchy stylistically irreconcilable with the matriarchy in power in england does not make them men, or respectable.
mircea_popescu: (and for bonus lulz - according to THEMSELVES, the pashtun are jews. unlike the people you and i know as jews, who are idiots, the good jews from afghanistan heard of the last prophet and sent envoys to muhammad.)
mircea_popescu: there is absolutely nothing but this to glue together eg t aquinas and jonas the prophet
asciilifeform: the actualities - correct, are quite similar, to sane eye.
mircea_popescu: this is how metaphysics, or christianity, etc even became subjects in the first place
asciilifeform: they describe the author's hallucinations, which are not difficult to distinguish.
mircea_popescu: well i dunno about that. the point being, if two works purport to describe items that can not be distinguished, it then stands that the two works are about the same thing.
asciilifeform: if we're dabbling in telepsychiatry, then the subject is what the patient hallucinated, rather than the actual objects that were in front of him at the time.
mircea_popescu: physically the same people, ideologically the same agenda, financially the exact same "money", wherein lies the distinguishing ?
asciilifeform: imho it is useful to distinguish pickpocket from rustler, even if both are hanged with the same type of rope on the same tree on same day etc.
mircea_popescu: the whole "this is how the matriarchy does it, this is how it should be done - because the matriarchy in all times and places is so much frozen shit" is not liable to change over time.
asciilifeform: iirc esr's referred to microshit
mircea_popescu: the difference from the other one being specifically that ?
asciilifeform: this, he did not try to hide. but his 'cathedral' is american (and, post-1945, 'internashiinnal komyooniti') academia/press.
mircea_popescu: what he does is the very americansky "i buy old books and rewrite them in my own hand, nobody'd ever know"
trinque: I'm aware of the latter
mircea_popescu: not in the slightest. i daresay there is not one thing that originates with the curtis yarvin fellow.
asciilifeform: mr mold was quite specific about which 'cathedral', 0 to do with esr's.
mircea_popescu: "the cathedral and the bazaar", google it.
trinque: where does he define this Cathedral thing
asciilifeform: very mixed bag, this d00d.
asciilifeform: http://blog.jim.com/war/now-four-sovereign-nations << re turks.
asciilifeform: ers of “the international community” in there.'
asciilifeform: 'As you know “the international community” is denouncing Russia’s use of bunker buster bombs as a war crime. There is a rebel video on you tube examining the hole made by a bunker buster. Looks like the bomb blast went through two meters of concrete to blow up inside a bunker. Somehow I doubt that you will find all that many civilians under two meters of concrete inside a bunker. But I rather suspect you might find a few memb
asciilifeform: in other vintage lulz, https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/surreptitiously.html#c1746484 << 'little birds' tell me that this actually happened. but no proof. anyone got electron microscope and too much free time ? ☟︎
trinque: looking back over recent history, maybe a guy asks himself why the government stopped pushing the clipper chip.
trinque: Framedragger: I had old school thinkpads; I was mocking your implication that it meant anything about whether the hardware was diddled
thestringpuller: writing a program for it felt a lot liek telling the computer to play a tape...
thestringpuller: DMA to this address and out comes sound