237800+ entries in 0.155s
mircea_popescu: trinque
this doesn't explain why ants aren't like
trilobytes see. most species are extinct, ants are uniquelly successful at
the game of life.
trinque: can't really said
to be optimal, just
that various other anthills were less so
jurov: "could fucking cut off
the sail" is formalizable but "having extra neurons
to be able
to do so" is not?
mircea_popescu: "anthill optimizes for anthood" is a very
true if not particularly useful statement. and
the
type of "anthood" variable could be... "anthillyness".
mircea_popescu: there's no requirement
that
the world makes sense in my categories, see.
jurov: anyway, if it's not optimization, what does mircea_popescu call
the its-not-doing-drunk-walk phenomenon?
mircea_popescu: anyway -
the reason
the yaching ant is such a good example is because - it COULD just fucking cut off
the god damned sail. couldn't it ? just drag
the seed without
the air drag ?
jurov: maximize biomass of
the species?
mircea_popescu: what's
this, "i'll make sure
the
turing machine don't ever stop, i'm having
too much fun" ?
mircea_popescu: and
the anthill optimizes for
the ... pointer
to
the function which is...
the element of
the anthill ?
mircea_popescu: you know, data
type.
that i can put in an ada-like manual and write a compiler for.
mircea_popescu: jurov yes, but
the
trouble is not only
that your guess is not formal - it's
that your guess is not formalizable.
jurov: i can only guess neurons are
too expensive and having extra
to avoid above spinning is not...optimal
mircea_popescu: yes,
they optimized. what ? von kaman's underpants,
that's what.
mircea_popescu: how about we just agree
that
the data
type of
the optimized variable is not computable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, so
they didn't have samarae where
the ant came from ?
mircea_popescu: contradicts my naive expectations as
to what "optimization" is.
mircea_popescu: but apparently...
the acer seed / wind combo hasn't needed any optimization or anything hence.
mircea_popescu: you'd
think
they had wind back in 50`000`000 bc back when ants were a hot new gizmo.
mircea_popescu: the sail blows in
the wind,
topples it,
the animal will happily spend half an hour spinning in a dime's area.
mircea_popescu: the general impression is of an ant
that decided
to
take up yachting
mircea_popescu: this country has a lot of foraging ant species. i enjoy watching
them. on numerous occasions i have observed individual ant dragging acer
type seed.
phf: i
think
that's one of standard
thinker childhood experiences, making a closed loop in
the ant pheromone
trail
jurov: they could use drunk walk or quantum bogosort or something..
they don't
mircea_popescu: it works as a retrospective, "looking at
this anthill, it becomes evident it mostly managed
to feed itself historically". yes. so... what.
mircea_popescu: jurov
this "ants optimize paths
to food" is like saying "trump won
the election". o, really, he did ?
jurov: ants supposedly optimize paths
to food. but slime mold can do it
too, without pheromone
trails
that have potential
to make cycles
phf: asciilifeform: i
think
the ant one is
the algo book, where's eberhart is an overview
mircea_popescu: (this is my stock question
to cut
the new age-y idiots at
the knees. "oh ant colony optimizes" "what ?". sooner or later
they realise
they can't actually SAY what
the fuck it is, because it's not a scalar ; nor a vector nor a bitfield. yes
they optimize something, now put it in a hard
typed language. what is it ?)
mircea_popescu: "i've never seen anything remotely as annoying as prolog, with
the notable exception of makefiles, running on
top of a wonderful inference engine of
their own" << ahaha!
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 22:21
trinque: it's entirely possible - and I
think likely -
that what counts for human intelligence does not run in a single human head
mircea_popescu: anyway,
the idea was similar - war is won by
the shovel means same
thing,
that indirect effects drown out direct effects.
mircea_popescu: (classical antiquity
take on it -
they didn't have radios)
trinque: it's entirely possible - and I
think likely -
that what counts for human intelligence does not run in a single human head
☟︎ mircea_popescu: perhaps rsa.
though i'm entirely unconvinced it's not
to be found in medieval arithmetics.
mircea_popescu: the same 60-70 years
that failed
to produce anything woreth
the mention in ai also failed
to produce an even vaguely coherent model of
the state, or of any sort of identity in any field, or of you pick it. not even
their distribution models work.
mircea_popescu: be
they "how
to run your household" or "how do do war and diplomacy" or anything else ABSOLUTELY.
mircea_popescu: yes, but
the approaches "ever
tried" have been "ever
tried" in a short period of history which is chiefly distinguished by
the incredible quality
that NONE of
the approaches
tried, in ANY fields, worked
to any degree or produced anything of interest.
mircea_popescu: see
the "your brain is not a
thinking mechanism" discussions.
mircea_popescu: but
then again :
the most hardcore anti-ai stance, and
the one
to which i vaguely subscribe, is
to observe
that
the 1 is entirely illusory
mircea_popescu: now
then :
the issue of arbitrarily hard ai existing / being produced is separate of same being produced ~by you~. for any definition of you.
mircea_popescu: people who believe in immaculate conception manage
to reproduce just fine etc.
mircea_popescu: understand
that in order for
the cunt
to work, you don't have
to understand its parts and mechanisms. iraqi "elite forces" use bridges and cartridges just fine even
though
they evidently can't make either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
the brain is a shambling horror of cells.
mircea_popescu: i can grant
that ai is a psychiatric issue of plenty of computer programmers ; i can even grant
that it is perhaps best
to pretend like ai is "impossible" in
the sense he means
to perhaps cure
the idiots.
mircea_popescu: i guess in his
terms
this makes me an ai weenie. you know, like hofstadter.
mircea_popescu: i must confes :
that i am not sufficiently an idealist
to presume some sort of "human-brain-substance"
that's somehow irreproducible in any other paradigm
than via cunt-perl.
mircea_popescu: well it's also not clear
the interface/drill bit dichotomy is supported by his piece.
mircea_popescu: as
the idea is
to make ai not a"i".
THAT we already have.
mircea_popescu: yes but if he is seriously contemplating a distinction along
those lines his whole piece just exploded into unrelatable islands.
mircea_popescu: "If
the
thing is even remotely close
to "intelligent", you can no longer issue commands; you must explain yourself and ask for something and
then it will misunderstand you." << he's wrong, incidentally. intelligent and obedient are not in any way orthogonal, a matter i have verified experimentally
to my satisfaction.
mircea_popescu: but on
the other side of
the coin, "As you probably already know, but my
trademark
thoroughness still obliges me
to say, AI stands for "Artificial Intelligence" and comes in
two flavors, "deterministic" (like minmax) and "statistical" (like SVM).
The combined efforts of various researches lead
to an important breakthrough in
this field, known
to meteorologists as "the AI winter".
This is
the season when you can't get any VC m
mircea_popescu: pedophile old men like paul graham & friends used
to CORRUPT
the athenian youth
phf: "The Disrupt Hackathon is a 24 Hour event preceding
the annual Disrupt London conference organized by
TechCrunch."
mircea_popescu: "kids will virtual currency
too" ? what is
this, illiterate indians will preet as well ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform:
This particular heathen iirc visited befor
mircea_popescu: phf ironically punk (90s, romania) was uncharacteristically
tolerant of faggotry. discreet, but present. "rockers" much less
tolerant.
mircea_popescu: to my eyes
the whole "social media" is running out of attraction juice, but what do i know.
phf: dc punk scene reminds me of
this story i read at some point by an отморозок
trying
to run some hustle in london. at some point he says he saw some suspiciously clean looking skinheads, so was about
to go "how are you brothers" until he saw
that
the
two were holding hands. after
that he goes on a long rant about how london skinheads are all fags, etc.