232700+ entries in 0.144s
mircea_popescu: σίν." somehow comes
to "There is nothing else beyond body (three dimensional solid) because if
there were,
then
there would be something else beyond body." which... it doesn't.
mircea_popescu: (but no, steve dutch's reading of aristotle is not interesting qua aristotle, or qua greek
thought. it's strictly
the case of dutch speaks english and found an english
translation of aristotle, so he imagines
that "τῶν γὰρ φύσει συνεστώτων τὰ μέν ἐστι σώματα καὶ μεγέθη, τὰ δ' ἔχει σῶμα καὶ μέγεθος, τὰ δ' ἀρχαὶ τῶν ἐχόντων εἰ
mircea_popescu: this is pretty easy a criticism
to make universally, "from you knowing x it follows
that x exists ; but from you not knowing y nothing follows about y".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty much reduces
to "the greeks went wrong in being
traditionalist, ie, expecting
their negative space is universal negative space".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes ; but coherence is also a very slippery
thing. for one
thing -
the ask.fm cowsies are very coherent. bitcoin is ??
mircea_popescu: moreover -
the real killer -
this "catching up" needn't happen in any finite
time.
the atomists of athens never got
the support coming
their way ; it was a risible sect in
the place and
time.
mircea_popescu: eventually "actual" science caught up with
them and backed
them up and here we are - but in other cases it didn't!
the recon squad
that sees enemy fortifying and raises a flag and calls for reinforcement may get
them, and create a
turning point in
the whole war. or may not get
them, and create half a dozen fresh graves.
mircea_popescu: just
the problem of optics in
the
time of galileo - none of
that shit worked in any sensible manner. very much like in
the case of string
theory -
they dispensed with reason.
they did.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather go far because if i stay close it looks
too much like genuine science.
mircea_popescu: and people DID spend
their life hunting ether winds. irl. yes. last century.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imagine someone who actually went
to
the
trouble of rescuing - from an intellectually powerful, epistemologically informed position - all
the insanities of history. "witches weighing doesn't work because witches don't have a float mass"
mircea_popescu: the fundamental reason weighing photons works and weighing witches does not work has nothing
to do with anything inside
the science ;
they
tried both, much like newton
tried alchemy.
mircea_popescu: so, yes : science, and i don't here mean, globalwarmism or pseudoevolutionism or lulzgametheory or such ; but - physics. astronomy,
things of serious.
these didn't develop methodically, in history, but exactly
through a process of "try random batshit and it sometimes works".
mircea_popescu: he
tree, and you have no guarantee at all points you will have
to resolve an epistemological dispute you will also have
the political class available.
mircea_popescu: trinque
the problem with feyerabend isn't even
that he's an asshole, or whatever else.
the problem is, his criticism of methodological science actually stands ; contrary
to what people like
to believe galilei's stance was a lot less defensible
than
the church's at
the
time ; yes he won, and yes he's from our party, so fuck
the church - but
this political approach
to
the problem is weak specifically because it
tries
to go up
t trinque: they're doing exactly what
they ought,
then.
trinque: hm, we may have reimplemented evolution in
this manner. breed incessantly, generate disjunctoins with reality at random in new meatsacks, older meatsacks
that survived
the last round kill
the bad candidates, goto 10
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah,
the problem is not
that it does
that ; just
that sometimes, it goes about it ineptly.
trinque: would befit
the creature
that found a life of sorts on every continent but
the
totally frozen one
mircea_popescu: (and if you're wondering -
the hallucinatory perception of
the other known objectively as "puppy love" is precisely an implementation of
this principle. as it exists in all cultures [that i'm familiar with] it seems likely
to be
the definitionally human
trait. man is
the beast who, when confronted with a shortfall, dreams up a compensation.)
mircea_popescu: which is why insanity is usually
the escape valve for desires incomesurate with possibilities. as alf says, nothing novel here.
mircea_popescu: but in any case - alienation and self-realization stand in an inexact opposition - if for no other reason
then because derealisation often appears as a viable alternative self-realisation. "i am a pretty special snowball" is exactly
the self-realised derealized individual, satisfied with his own self image in a wholly imagined world. while by definition maximally alienated ; he also is maximally self-realized.
mircea_popescu: evidently
there's some expectation somewhere
that
the batshit insane
terms of
the empire will be
taken at face value. by someone, somewhere. i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: yes, but "ask.fm has 150mn users" and shopify
trades as NYSE:SHOP for 40bux and
then some guy wants
to discuss
things about you know, "MPEx has no volume you have been warned!!11"
mircea_popescu: you'd expect basic numeracy
to also be "perfectly adequate for all kinds of everyday work", except
the kinds of everyday work in question are no longer done -
the kids all see
themselves you know, CEOs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
there is no such
thing as "everyday work" anymore.
mircea_popescu: anyway, while
the quoted article is remarkable in
toto as a fine sample of what wikipedia is, intellectually,
the "break all
the mirrors" fatlogic reaction is not limited
to wikitards.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
the pedestrian notion of value and worth certainly have practical problems.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile,
things such as "buy up all
the grain and lock it in
the basement", which are EXACT equivalents - antieconomic underutilization, are... also "firmly negative". well which
the fuck is it!
mircea_popescu: firmly in what sense ? if
the company is worth less
than its parts,
then
this is a case of underutilization of capital goods. someone somewhere is starving because you decided
to keep
the warehouse empty.
mircea_popescu: "Asset stripping has presented itself
to be a highly controversial
topic within
the financial world.
The positives of asset stripping generally lie with
the corporate raiders, who can slash
the debts
they may have whilst improving
their net worth.[6] However,
the general perspective of asset stripping is firmly negative."
trinque: at least
the socialist state claims
to exist *here*
trinque: "not me but christ
through me" even worse, I'd
think, with apologies
to danielpbarron. "I submit myself fully
to
the god of purpose."
mircea_popescu: recall
the
time when eu zone declared short selling illegal ?
mircea_popescu: trinque quite. and also you know, "campaign against fake news", "campaign against bullying", "campain against online
trolls" and what have you.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-23 05:06
trinque: I demand for
this
to never have happened at once!
mircea_popescu: which severance is reinterpreted internally as "liberating" -
the same kids who ENJOYED getting out of
the house when
they were 18
then cry when
their parents die. but why ? weren't you so fucking happy
to be rid of
them ?
mircea_popescu: ah. it is a failure mode ;
the feedback is perceived by
the i-subject as dolorous, and if
there's
too much of it
the only way
to rescue
the ideology is
to sever
the feedback.
trinque: "no feedback between
the hardware and ideology"
trinque trying
to wrap brain around whether
this is a failure mode or universally
true, but will have
to implement
tail recursion optimization in his own head first
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (incidentally, anyone looking for a good source of
the subversion of "stem" in
the us may as well go read feyerabend)
mircea_popescu: and so
therefore - no,
they're not doing anything in
town but playing eulora. it has ~nothing
to do with farmer, miner or soldier.
mircea_popescu: the system is strictly bound in
this manner ; and
that decides
the results.
mircea_popescu: there ISNT an outcome where
they go on reddit and wikipedia
to say
the opposite of what
they
think, see ?
mircea_popescu: if luck/skill/process/whatever feeds
them,
they'll be fed and go on reddit and wikipedia
to say what ~they
think~ about it. right or wrong.
mircea_popescu: there is no feedback between
the hardware and
the ideology ; and consequently matters of existence are irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform
there's no actual link between
these
two planes, you udnerstand ? consider
that
the idiots who
thought hillary will win, DIDN'T yield once she didn't win. consider
the above story of dreamers, and ALL experience without exception.
mircea_popescu: this is
the fundamental syllogism
that informs all
the outwardly-insane human behaviour.
mircea_popescu: could you say "whenever someone clicks on some grass
to make a bundle and process it into coarse frangible
thread -
they are gambling with
the proceeds of
the actual irl farmer and miner, and soldier." ? sure. does it actually say anything however ? i dun see what.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really. in fact,
they're just playing eulora.
pete_dushenski: they leavers still end up missing
the quietude and
tranquility of
the countryside.
there's no
taking
the rural out of
the boy.
mircea_popescu: this is
the essential point,
that shock of
the alzheimer patient who sees self in
the mirror and calls
the police
to report a burglary.
mircea_popescu: nobody has clean hands (go
to a bio lab sometime, see). however - city gamblers feel
their city gambling hands
to be ~theirs~
to a larger degree
than rural gamblers do.
mircea_popescu: (and yes farming is entirely chumpatronics, of
the worst ilk. as dean martin once said, "my old man used
to gamble
that he'd get rain. i figure if a man's gonna gamble, might as well eschew plowing."
mircea_popescu: however it is
telling
that
the leavers all seek
the same
thing - and it isn't
the city per se. it's just "self-realization" ie,
the opposite of
the above alienation. essentially,
they seek
to not be chumpatron engineers.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski
this is not universally
true however. even in
the narrow urban-rural-1970s universe discussed,
there are some who are more alienated by
the urban
than
the rural, prefer
to live on
the farm.
pete_dushenski: something like 4/7 kids had
top marks in
their respective years.
pete_dushenski: no one wants
to go back
to
the farm.
tis very
true and
the primary reason why my father's family busted
their nuts
to get
top marks in county so as
to get
the fuck off
the land and move
to
the city.
trinque: pete_dushenski:
tundras are motherfuckers;
they're in
the running.
pete_dushenski: trinque: you'd like
their
trucks. solid electronics (unlike ze germans), rock solid engines (unlike ze amerikans), but high resale value.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if
the pig farmer didn't experience alienation
the pig farmer's daughter would be under my
table begging
to suck my cock or anything else so she doesn't have
to go back
to
the pig farm.
trinque: trying
to stop leaking money for no good reason on scam machines
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu:
thus "natural resource value down 75% yoy"
pete_dushenski: goodness no. just a starter. ben is comparing crapples
to crystal vases is all.
trinque: replacing a lexus
transmission?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: stealership wants 800 for part, 6.1hrs labour at $155/hr. also recall
these are pitiful canuckbucks, not megaU$$$D here, so chop a full quarter when converting your bezzle outrage. but yes, civic
tranny is cheap,
toyolexus parts very spendy. anyways, my mechanic is doing it for closer
to $1300. still a slap but not quite as dear.
trinque: "let my name not be attached
to
this act"
trinque: the rocket designers aren't far from
their work in
the alienation sense.
mircea_popescu: while alienation is a fact of life ; i scarcely see
the merit in building it in deliberately ffs.