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asciilifeform: i thought this also, when had pre-PG phuctor. turns out ~nothing is measurably > nothing, lol
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'delete file', it isn't quite a simple, cuz fs ops are potentially locking. i elided what means 'wipe the cache' for brevity, but there's a knob.
asciilifeform: already this thing is eating surprising amt of hand-cranking
mp_en_viaje: point being, some duplication will hurt ~nothing anyway. you can keep them as they are, just drop the spurious design constraint
asciilifeform dislikes pyistic libism , it spirals into insanity pretty quickly and makes testing / swaps of proggy on live box complicated
mp_en_viaje: could lib out the shared routines i guess
asciilifeform: that way reduce to 1 proggy, and all of the shared routines unduped.
asciilifeform: hm prolly i oughta have done it phuctor-style (where there's 1 .py and it can run either as wwwtron or 'eater' depending on cmdline params. )
mp_en_viaje: while it's sensible to have www and logbot separate programs, it makes stupid to have them on separate boxes.
asciilifeform: currently they do work separately, if one were to tunnel the pgism. but mp_en_viaje has the point, that 'who knows if this even will ever be needed'
mp_en_viaje: but it makes perfect sense to make them same unit, and make multiples of the complete unit if need be for reliability. it makes anti-sense to create "across-box" db edges, and try and maintain the nonsense army of unlilely units that don't work separately anyway
asciilifeform: whythefuck throw the bot's connection simply to change colour of wwwism etc
asciilifeform: cuz of the above.
mp_en_viaje: so then that's why not make them same proggy
asciilifeform: in that case may as well make'em same proggy. tho i like being able to reset the www displayer w/out affecting bot.
mp_en_viaje: imo this should be set in stone.
asciilifeform: currently they indeed do.
mp_en_viaje: but they share a db and a filesystem, and are on same box.
asciilifeform: to keep all wwwism inside the wwwtron, and all ircism inside irctron.
mp_en_viaje: nfi why youd do it like that.
asciilifeform: ( plan is to have >1 , eventually, even inside this 1 system )
asciilifeform: the logger is built deliberately not to assume that it is on same box as www.
mp_en_viaje: www reconstructs it next someone calls that url.
mp_en_viaje: have the logger simply delete the file whenever it runs into a logreference. eg if i say http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-08-12#1841030 it erases 2018-08-12.html
asciilifeform: ( currently the only means of communication b/w logger and www end, is (excepting the search fetch) -- the DB )
asciilifeform: not trivially, but yes, would have to
mp_en_viaje: nobody says www has to blow it
mp_en_viaje: ok, but you can have the logger blow the cache for the www
asciilifeform: i was baking the cache
asciilifeform: in re when to blow cache
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:56:38 mp_en_viaje: whenever they're linked
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927665 << this , btw, will require some thought -- presently wwwtron has nfi 'when someone speaks' , can only query the db ( as can be seen in the 'last time anyone spoke' section of proggy ) which itself takes time
asciilifeform: i made the coloured blocks the lightest shade that'd still be distinguishable on my displays, imho this is Right Thing
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 18:08:25 asciilifeform: nobody has said anyffin re the checkerboard, i'ma keep it as stands then unless someone reports that it makes eyes bleed
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928114 << tis fine imo!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 17:39:54 bvt: so far i've been doing everything manually. for 10 vpatches, i would start automating the process. typicall i'd run full test set for each vpatch
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928103 << in a word, i dunno it'd make a difference ; but it's the sorta thing only time will really tell.
asciilifeform: ( and it'll go into the next patch )
asciilifeform: nobody has said anyffin re the checkerboard, i'ma keep it as stands then unless someone reports that it makes eyes bleed
BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> BingoBoingo, typical tropes of oldwoman fiction. << Typical tropes in a particular case that have high lulz potential Q3-Q4 of next year when North Argentina recycles
asciilifeform: will put this in on the staging box / bot
asciilifeform: re the 0x01 -- iirc these can't even occur in utf8! so prolly could simply filter'em out entirely
bvt: asciilifeform: can you try curl -s logs.nosuchlabs.com/log | grep --perl-regexp '\x01'
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/basic-instinct/ << Trilema -- Basic Instinct
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 11:04:34 asciilifeform: hrm anybody else see that spurious 0x01 ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 17:01:08 bvt: asciilifeform: re ctcp, you can spot /me messages in the curl output of your logger: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sUDA5/?raw=true (extra ' 01 ' byte)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928088 << i noticed the spurious 0x01, assumed it was py's utf heap o'rubbish improperly decoding. how do these appear from /me ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 16:44:50 bvt: asciilifeform: there is another thing that i just noticed that different between phf's logger and yours: single quote (') is encoded as &#039 in phf's logger, and as &apos in yours -- and &apos happens to be totally broken in links graphical mode (links -g). i can fix this on the links side, but i wonder if this is intended/acceptable behavior
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928085 << this loox like simple thing, will put into next patch
bvt: so far i've been doing everything manually. for 10 vpatches, i would start automating the process. typicall i'd run full test set for each vpatch
mp_en_viaje: if you do a total of 100 unit tests, does it matter if you do them in sets of 9-11-9-11 for 10 patches or in sets of 23-27-23-27 for 4 patches ?
bvt: the two things for comparison -- less total number of vpatches at cost of vpatch size, or more vpatches, but smaller ones?
bvt: but again, i think the first to points are more important; the third one has less priority (at least for me).
bvt: in my workflow, each vpatch individually receives full press-build-test cycle; more smaller vpatches can make this process a bit longer and tedious.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, typical tropes of oldwoman fiction.
mp_en_viaje: i just don't understand what two things we're comparing.
bvt: maybe that's too much testing for re-signing, i dunno.
BingoBoingo: Assorted news landings submitted for the historical record: https://archive.is/WYl3C https://archive.is/FxPWb Some lulz present including "The peso didn't fall, the USD just happened to climb 30% in a day"
bvt: and i know that when re-signing multiple vpatches, i would have done the same thing individually for each vpatch.
bvt: well when i was re-signing another vtools vpatch at phf's request (for keccak regrind), i did the full re-testing as when releasing it the first time, to make sure that everything is ok.
mp_en_viaje: how's that ?
bvt: there is also an aspect of potential future re-signing work on regrinds, which forces bigger vpatches, but imo the first two are more important
mp_en_viaje: to be sure i think your patch is fine as it is.
bvt: mp_en_viaje: i think there are two aspects: 1. readability (whether readers would be able to understand what is going on; in that vpatch the changes are local enough); 2. atomicity (whether someone would ever want to have one fix without the other; here my position is much weaker -- perhaps someone would want to have a crash on empty vpatches?)
bvt: asciilifeform: re ctcp, you can spot /me messages in the curl output of your logger: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sUDA5/?raw=true (extra ' 01 ' byte)
mp_en_viaje: speaking of http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/vpatch-support-for-files-in-vtree-root/comment-page-1/#comment-57 what's even the guidance ? "fix one issue" ? something else ?
bvt: asciilifeform: there is another thing that i just noticed that different between phf's logger and yours: single quote (') is encoded as &#039 in phf's logger, and as &apos in yours -- and &apos happens to be totally broken in links graphical mode (links -g). i can fix this on the links side, but i wonder if this is intended/acceptable behavior
asciilifeform: ... if no one has any idea, i'ma have to revert, this broke multiline select also.
asciilifeform: if anyone has idea re how to fix, plox to write in.
asciilifeform: if nuffin is found to be catastrophically broken, will cut vpatch.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/08/peso-argentino-and-argentine-markets-fall-after-primary-elections-give-peronist-alberto-fernandez-cristina-kirchner-margin-sufficient-to-win-october-ballot-outright/ << Qntra -- Peso Argentino And Argentine Markets Fall After Primary Elections Give "Peronist" Alberto Fernandez, Cristina Kirchner Margin Sufficient To Win October Ballot Outright
asciilifeform: achtung panzers : test of next ver of log www ; spyked you have the newtab thing ; mp_en_viaje you have the checkerboard (lemme know if would rather darker/lighter) ; asciilifeform gets http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log?rev=1 reversal
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-the-biggest-dick-ever-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - The Biggest Dick Ever. Adnotated.
mp_en_viaje: georgetown folk should have instead lobbied for "right to put any hobo found in driveway to work for the day". then -- subway could've brought all the hobos it wanted.
mp_en_viaje: ~only known way to not have hobos is by forced labour.
asciilifeform last yr had to take a crapple box in for warranty repairs there. garbage errywhere.
asciilifeform: right in front of e.g. crapple store (tm)(r) and the other pretentious heathen pits
asciilifeform: today -- no subway there. but hobos a-plenty.
asciilifeform: there was a similar wank in usa, incidentally, in '70s when the wash. subway was built. there's a 'posh' neighbourhood, georgetown, where the locals successfully lobbied against subway stop. 'will bring hobos!111'
asciilifeform: aha! this
asciilifeform: can't seem to find in o(1) tho
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc there was a trilema piece re argentards protesting a... bus stop
mp_en_viaje: honestly i never followed the tardeluge that closely, somehow only ugly chicks live in the core. hotties universally peripherical.
asciilifeform: ( to the credit of the frogs -- made no substantial dent )
asciilifeform: recall when 1 of these fired rpg7 at fr reactor ?
asciilifeform: afaik usg picked up where kgb left off, paying idjits to sit in front of gates at french nuke stations
mp_en_viaje: the euro retardkids mostly complain that industry still exists.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: near as i could tell, they were 'protesting' the theoretical non-reelection of obummer. vanished within coupla days of 2012 continuation in office.
mp_en_viaje: "its world" being even the reason these fucks haven't yet starved ; but w/e.
asciilifeform: old-timers in usa remember 'hobo towns' made of wood and cloth. but today's hobos -- go to 'sport' shop and buy tent.
asciilifeform: i have buncha photos somewhere, but all snoar, mostly tents
mp_en_viaje: kinda makes the point about just how fucking dumb the kids actually are.
mp_en_viaje: i really like that retarded-gnome-tower tbh
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: they had this in usa, massive public wank, 'occupy'(tm)(r)
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in "the orc future of the zeklands" lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_to_Defend quite illustrative
asciilifeform: ( no public word , naturally, in re how much coin the 'inspectors' w/ the prng key, walk out with, and with what regularity )
asciilifeform: typical cheats, in so far as they reach the open literature, involve the coin dispenser, rather than rng per se.
asciilifeform: the other interesting casinoism is that in usa, rng is a sealed box provided by usg. but iirc had already thread about this, in '13
asciilifeform: also, or goes the legend, anyone who was in some way party to the design of the game instruments, is persona non grata in casino (e.g., asciilifeform's brother, who has never set foot in a casino nor wanted to; one time his (long-defunkt) firm was contracted to make a pokerator... )
mp_en_viaje: after seeing the line-of-cabs edifice of socialism this doesn't even strike me as unlikely