log☇︎
23300+ entries in 0.01s
asciilifeform: afaik the only extant sys which solved w/out 'rack in throne' is bitcoin.
mp_en_viaje: this being not theoretical wank but actual lived history.
asciilifeform: ideally 'canonical' log imho would live in the rack under mp_en_viaje's throne. is how historically this sorta thing worx
mp_en_viaje: now consider this matter from the other pov.
asciilifeform: would notice ? and what to do, when noticed, whose copy is 'it' ?
asciilifeform: the other side of this, is q of 'what is canonical log' . i.e. is it mp_en_viaje's terminal (runs for 3-4 hrs / d ? and where did not even notice index off, asciilifeform had to notice and ring alarm ) ? asciilifeform's term ? (runs 24/7, but down for maybe 10min / yr ) ? or dulap 's ?
asciilifeform: (and in the end still resulting in divergent text b/w loggers, as pointed out upstack)
asciilifeform: erry single incident of 'fleanode weather' can create , within <1sec, a split that -- with hands -- will take 10min (of practiced hand) to fix
asciilifeform: consider, erry prev. log operator has gone mad. i suspect that know why.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re the log indices, there's a deeper q, that i'd like to lay out and ask mp_en_viaje to actually take halfhr+ to think about, with brain in full throttle, before answering, cuz it is very easy to spec this in such a way that asciilifeform's (or anyone's) pair of hands will not in fact be long enuff or fast enuff to handle
mp_en_viaje: if i really manage to make the damn thing fit in a deck fo cards ima celebrate.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 12:34:04 mp_en_viaje: most of my implements started life as... pet toys, at pet store. all sorta silicone beaters, ball launchers that are epic for hurt and so on
BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928655 << Pet toys some of the few actual "durable" consumer goods on account of inability of princess in her own mind's inability to tell her dog to be gentle with the toys
billymg: asciilifeform: approved and replied, ty
asciilifeform: could be (dun display tho, so difficult to say for fact)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i considered also to put 'delta' integer column in the db, specifically for this.
asciilifeform: ( and is why i baked the 'raw export' knob, ideally this is to be semi-automated , i.e. logger operators oughta be able to look, compare to e.g. own local log, and resync if agree )
asciilifeform: seems like Right Thing .
asciilifeform: and (contrary to what some may thing) asciilifeform is not awake 24/7 at console to turn the crank immediately
asciilifeform: this horror aint even rare exception, but as i understand has happened to each logger to date when 1) bot fell 2) folx continued to speak 3) bot stood up . i'd like to devise a deterministic algo for wat-do in such cases, they will repeat for so long as we inhabit fleanode
mp_en_viaje: diff start times for one.
a111: Logged on 2019-08-14 16:26 mp_en_viaje: i dunno that they're synced
mp_en_viaje: i dunno that they're synced ☟︎
asciilifeform: so far mine at least not fell down, but we have not yet seen this wonder, of bot that never once fell
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'm still waiting to hear from e.g. ben_vulpes re what he did when bot fell down, to sync the indices with phf's
mp_en_viaje: ideally this is the last one of such little malfeasant bitchfailures, where logger goes on working but not right
asciilifeform: aite then will fix exactly like that.
asciilifeform: can easily do this, but does mp_en_viaje want ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 'fix the refs' as in, modify stored lines ?
mp_en_viaje: also neither here nor there. fix it, and then fix the references.
asciilifeform: if anyone thought 'hey asciilifeform can do in 5 days what phf did in 1yr' -- this is naive.
asciilifeform: these are complete other than the uniturd-containing emissions by lobbesbot. but result is that the numeration has diverged. ( we already discussed q of whether such divergence is 100% preventable in light of fleanode, tho , but inconclusively )
asciilifeform: well the lines from yest. lobesbot , until when i have the fix tested & deployed.
mp_en_viaje: there's no in between. logger must reflect channel. that's what it does.
asciilifeform: ( they 'broke eater' in the sense that lobbesbot's emission was not logged; bot did not fall down and lose other lines , note. )
asciilifeform: bot ate 100% of phf's log in testing phase w/out losing lines. but lobbes in fact discovered uniturds that break py's eater. i'ma implement the fix described by phf , but the q will remain re what, if anyffin, to do re the in-between.
asciilifeform: then will nuke all the log refs since !
mp_en_viaje: well you're supposed to put the missing lines in, neh ?
asciilifeform: i'ma not attempt to do anyffin about this unless mp_en_viaje says specifically what ought to.
asciilifeform: btw dunno if anyone other than asciilifeform noticed, but on acct of the uniturd sadness, we already have diverging line indices between the various loggers.
snsabot: Logged on 2016-06-19 23:21:04 mircea_popescu: I myself used a Hole Hawg to drill many holes through studs, which it did as a blender chops cabbage. I also used it to cut a few six-inch-diameter holes through an old lath-and-plaster ceiling. I chucked in a new hole saw, went up to the second story, reached down between the newly installed floor joists, and began to cut through the first-floor ceiling below. Where my homeowner's drill had labored and whined
asciilifeform: ... meanwhile, found the ancient piece re the tools.
billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928640 << awesome! even if implementation of tests change billymg would find this a useful map
asciilifeform: read this 20y ago. and then 1 day found shop where ~actual~ industrial tooling sold. no flashing neons, in fact is unmarked hole in abandoned-looking warehouse, entirely disappears when the place is closed and the burglar grille is down. and open only 2d/wk. there -- can buy, sans plastic, actual e.g. pneumatic hammers etc.
asciilifeform: there was a 1990s piece re how chumps walk into ameri-'hardware store' and buy 'contractor-grade!111' plasti-tools that fall apart after 5 uses
mp_en_viaje: some things, such as machined steel buttplugs, yes. some other things, holy hell no, shitty handcuffs with plastifur hotglued on sorta-kinda ?!
asciilifeform: i recall a mp_en_viaje piece where explained which parts of vacuum cleaner are best for this
mp_en_viaje: most of my implements started life as... pet toys, at pet store. all sorta silicone beaters, ball launchers that are epic for hurt and so on
asciilifeform: oh iknow, saw 9000 times. can see anywhere. consider crapple's $100 cables .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 12:08:00 asciilifeform: and in short order you get the lemon market, where 'why should i pay a cent moar, i know i will get exactly same shit as from lolmart no matter how much i pay'
mp_en_viaje: re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928620 specifically : the fucking retards ACTUALLY do this, buy cheap shitty plastirope, cut it to ridiculous length, sell it as "kinky rope" in colored cardboard
billymg finds himself attempting to curate items for pet to acclimate her to republic without overloading all at once
billymg: asciilifeform, mp_en_viaje: incidentally i recently stumbled upon that article myself and shared with pet -- was happy that she both understood it and enjoyed it
mp_en_viaje: nfi if i'll manage to finish it or scrap it, but we see.
mp_en_viaje: ..header image, lowest layer, with title and byline superimposed, topmost layer.
billymg: mp_en_viaje: in theory we could write the tools that do what the heathen stack does, but i honestly think, given the intended purpose, it makes more sense to temporarily use them and then discard
asciilifeform: when 'be' was alive, could in fact edit film on (1990s! era) pc ! instead of on dedicated tape decks. as caught on only decade later, when microshit deemed it possible on their i-cant-believe-its-not-os
asciilifeform: today lives in kunstkammer with the other abortusen
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:18:36 mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then they fucked it all up.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928499 << this also interesting in light of now-~forgotten 1990s wrecks. at one time there was a product called 'be' (and in its early yrs came with own machine, designed from 0, 'bebox') and was , to many folx, 'definitive machine for video', unlike unixlikes or microshit, the kernel was built for realtime response above-all .
asciilifeform: ( on rare occasions, ends instead like bolix. but arguably similar enuff, fella who dies of heat and the other who -- of cold, still just as dead in the end)
asciilifeform: there's no shortage of stories like this, they all begin and end in exactly same way, 'seen 1, seen'em all'
asciilifeform: thing ran on 1 of the 1st mass prod. 'arm' cpu, also. and y'know the rest of what happened to those.
asciilifeform: st -- you can prolly predict. bought, turned into 'symbian', destroyed by idjicy.
asciilifeform: here's another somewhat obscure example of the progression. recall in 1990s there were 9000 makers of pocket comps ? the kind could pull out on train and type into. all but 1 such, ended up in thralldom to microshit, and packaged (in rom!) winblowz 'ce', abominable liquishit, but somehow '100% market dominant'. the 1 holdout was a brit outfit, 'psion' . i have 1 here in torture room, it has better responsiveness than most pc ! the re
mp_en_viaje: billymg, i guess im stuck doing this, huh.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, btw, nice footer. i wonder how useful the random shooter will turn out
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 03:28:54 mp_en_viaje: linux-server-database-scriptglue. that's what it's gonna be. call them what you will, but try and remember : buying "alternatives" doesn't make you alternative. i buy rope from the rope store and server from the apache store because i don't wanna pay 5x for shittier rope bought at the "special bdsm store". it dun do nothing for me.
asciilifeform: and in short order you get the lemon market, where 'why should i pay a cent moar, i know i will get exactly same shit as from lolmart no matter how much i pay'
asciilifeform: so, to return to thrd, historically when tree grows through pavement 'successfully', a la lamp, the naggumocalypse is not far, eventually around tree is built 'city park', with 'rules & regulations', 9000 idlers & hobos with imagined 'rights' etc
asciilifeform: 'Some people make new stuff... The herd gathers round the new item... The herd proceeds to interact with the new item... The fallen... come forth to "lead" the herd, to create "rules" for "the betterment" of the herd... The people continue to make their things exactly as they feel like... The herd moos happily'
billymg: mp_en_viaje: responded to your comment on the tester post http://billymg.com/2019/08/mp-wp-automated-testing-proposal-and-vpatch/comment-page-1/#comment-33
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, seems like recurrent theme, tbh, not sure which piece
asciilifeform tempted to make these bidirectional, it's entirely doable deterministically
asciilifeform: err, quite cold to the subj
asciilifeform: asciilifeform was drawn into bitcoin (specifically as portrayed by mp_en_viaje ; was never in the tardstalk forum , and http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939 until encountered mp_en_viaje ) specifically because appeared, to asciilifeform , to be the 1st known instance of a successful defense against the 1-5 rot progression .
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje had a piece ( where is it, grr ) where '1) actual people make a thing 2) herd finds it 3) herd 'also wants' 4) herd 'regulates', 'manages' 5) actual-people pack it ...' etc
asciilifeform: then -- the flood of 'driven not even by greed, but sheer ~need~' described by naggum.
asciilifeform: rright, back when this required proficiency with the seed-in-pavement-of-the-day
mp_en_viaje: i dunno about wwwtards! redditards i can see, but in the period between 93 and say digg days as the end, up to about 2010, having a website was rather a promise of sanity.
asciilifeform: ( and , lol, then 'mumps' will be overrun and die in 3-5 yrs and the old men will go, some to 'cluck' at ms sql , others to bottle )
mp_en_viaje: this vice thin gis fucked in the head
asciilifeform: it's universally the items that the wwwtards, microshit fruiting bodies, etc left for dead, where one still finds scrap of sanity and sumthing like documented, ~working~ moving parts.
asciilifeform: consider gnat. why is it that its corpse had usable organs in it when we dug up.
mp_en_viaje: well, no/minimal net exposure also became very easy to achieve these days.
asciilifeform: this is actually typical of the 'trees in pavement', many/most have minimal net exposure. survival adaptation.
asciilifeform: somewhat retarded heathen 'threat or menace' piece re subj, for anyone interested. difficult actually to find detailed material on the net re this item, i orig. encountered it by chance, deep in the salt mines, in person.
mp_en_viaje: nothing comes to mind
asciilifeform: 1970s-era string-munging lang ~to this day~ used for medical db. runs on e.g. old ibm gear. look at it some time, will have nightmare. ( can 'redefine number 4' and so forth, and not only ~can~ but sometimes ~must~ ) but there it is , still in use.
asciilifeform: this is the interesting bit, there are industries where 'tree in the pavement' was never even approached, much less asphalted over, by ~either~ unix or microshit .
asciilifeform: what jars, ~all extant plants run on 1970s tech, never even swapped. there are folx making replacement parts for the pdp8.
mp_en_viaje: i kid you not. ask the haliburtons
asciilifeform: but reactor would quietly run vms ( as incidentally they still do ) on vax.
mp_en_viaje: but an item that is premised on not attempting to take off is not airplane/
mp_en_viaje: this is the problem with systems that don't scale : yes, if your airplane can't take off, not attempting to take of is "wise".
asciilifeform: well linux in particular, as perpetrated by the finn, would almost certainly have stopped at the 'bored'
mp_en_viaje: either that or he'd have gotten bored of it about the same time as he did irl, and dropped in the drawer.
asciilifeform: to pile on the upstack thrd tho : lamp, as i see it, was linux's great ~calamity~. w/out rise of www, linux (or, moar likely, the bsd's) would have stayed small, obscure ( like many of the other systems asciilifeform worked with , that actually work and mp_en_viaje never heard of, or heard of strictly in 'facebookized' variants ) but... working. i.e. remained a green shoot in the pavement, for however long .
asciilifeform: but imho worth a try
mp_en_viaje: the example doesn't, but i recall seeing some other client also take out chars yes.