log☇︎
219700+ entries in 1.015s
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'must bite hook, to get the free worm' ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: a rare typo
asciilifeform: or if obummer personally fellates you every time you put a hundy in
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:32 ben_vulpes: davout: reference miner is still in trb bin.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608353 << it'll very likely stay there forever, for the simple reason that a bitcoin miner that's proper is worth money so can't be given away for free, and if it's going to be improper then alf's 2012 argument prevails and just keep the old one. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: on the other hand "b-b-b-but not real retirement plan because no employer match!"
asciilifeform: for it to fill.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i read the linked piece, did not see 'free' ?
ben_vulpes: aaaand we've exhausted the wp stack :D
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:27 davout: the way i see things, the "fee estimation" code must die
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608327 << that's certainly a fine candidate. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: gotta translate some pieces for us sometime :)
asciilifeform: aramaic trilema is spiffy, recommended to all.
mircea_popescu: and then dream about reading trilema in aramaic
asciilifeform: fwiw i frequently curl up in bed with the thing. and read. until fall asleep.
mircea_popescu: at some point the pile of chain overweighs the disinclination to read code.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: supposing they ~read~ it, and not merely ~read enough to overcome the regrind barrier~
mircea_popescu: nobody's forcing anyone, they just get gently encouraged.
mircea_popescu: piece of code A which has been read 8 times by 5 peoiple is thereby better, no questions, more valuable and more useful, than the SAME EXACT piece of code A read by its author alone.
asciilifeform: however it is not automatically given that by forcing folx to regrind, you make them attentively read
mircea_popescu: the more time people spend ~actually reading~ the same piece of code, the better. "i might have read it so it's as good as read" open source bs doesn't qualify here.
mircea_popescu: i think you book it as a loss, but it is a gain.
asciilifeform: there is ~some~ win from ~some~ coupling, on account of the longest-chain/regrind thing
mircea_popescu: there's no need for that tight coupling of intent anyway, not like we're trying to drive through an intersection here.
mircea_popescu: it's always way the fuck better to say "i don't like what you did because" than to say "i don't like what i think it might be the case you say you intend to do because".
asciilifeform: and i take off my hat, for this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he certainly spared asciilifeform from the chore of maintaining full vtron
mircea_popescu: consider the fine case of mod6 's vtron since he said something. so he built a vtron, then later we decided didn't like how it works, he put the time in to understand the thing, fix it... all this happened because he made the first one ; and wouldn't have happened if we were just sitting 6months ago holding dicks and discussing it theoretically.
asciilifeform: so that no one can later say 'oh so sad, reactor melted, but i had nfi, asciilifeform never barfed.'
asciilifeform: but forum exists partly to put on record, when we barf, why.
asciilifeform: i should hope that no one is discouraged from writing patch just because i barfed.
ben_vulpes: moreover there is no harm in bringing a patch for discussion, and all of this durm and strang will discourage "patches alf doesn't like" even if just in the patcher's mind
asciilifeform: again, if davout breaks his trb, and signs off on a b0rk3d proggy, it does not 'pick my pocket or break my leg', mine will still work.
mircea_popescu: now, this excursion in unrelated scary things complete, let's get back to it : give people the benefit of the doubt. if they fuck it up it's their problem not yours.
asciilifeform: and in fact recall, i asked for trb, because i wanted The B00k
asciilifeform: fwiw i do not hold to 'trb 4evah!'
asciilifeform: which is why the clock on replacing trb, does run.
asciilifeform: even if pedo did not groom this gurl from birth, there is still ~bottomless well of bugs in openssl, boost, linux, etc.
mircea_popescu: and plenty of people knew it would take off, which is how we're here.
asciilifeform: no one knew that the thing would take off.
asciilifeform: so it is not that nsa was absent, no. it is the theft incentive, that was.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> make macs great again <+ben_vulpes> install openbsd on them << :D
asciilifeform: for all i know, nsa was there on day 1.
mircea_popescu: there is some merit to this view. not as much as you imagine though. gavin was there, in 2012, and giving "talks" to the nsa, in 2011, and wondering out loud if that's certainly not why satoshi stopped talking to him.
asciilifeform: i thought this was basic.
asciilifeform: and if abandoning this -- may as well replace whole shebang.
asciilifeform: and the only countermeasure is to keep the changes to grandfather's pistol, minimal, reviewable, 'fits in head.' and to retain old mechanisms when practical.
asciilifeform: it is , largely, why we have v. because every line of post-2012, bitcoin-touching, code, is guilty-until-proven-innocent of plotting to steal.
asciilifeform: pre-2012 bitcoin code is a thing.
asciilifeform: al schwartz wrote about the roofs, iirc it was. semiconductor firms replaced cathedral roofs all over europe, for 0 cost. just to get the valuable pre-hiroshima metal.
asciilifeform: heartbleed also sat 'without trouble'.
mircea_popescu: iirc he said he used it without trouble.
asciilifeform: (did we do this thread..?)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you remember the old leaden church roofs ?
asciilifeform: (this was in the last thread re subj, a while back)
asciilifeform: iirc jurov , for instance, specifically said 'hey you can go and use this python wallet'
asciilifeform: but i would like to know, if it had.
mircea_popescu: i don't see that happened.
asciilifeform: and i would like to know ~where~.
asciilifeform: my objection is not 'davout Broke Trb oh noez!!' but to the thought process that might lead an otherwise literate d00d to contemplate a 'reference' that lacks vital organs as a valid thing
mircea_popescu: read my fucking lips : ALL OF THEM.
mircea_popescu: do you have any fucking idea how many bridges we crossed when we got to them to get here ?
mircea_popescu: cross that bridge when you get to it.
asciilifeform: ditto trb-minus-mempool.
asciilifeform: ditto trb-minus-any-miner.
asciilifeform: but to rewind: i do not object to davout mutilating his own personal trb however he likes. however i do object to calling a trb-minus-any-wallet a 'reference implementation'.
mircea_popescu: everything in the us is 2.2 these days. but whatever the actual value might be.
mircea_popescu: it's safe to assume he's not about to do something stupiud in all the places it's not exhaustively clear what he actually means to do. and if he does do something stupid all the better, we get to laugh at him later.
mircea_popescu: er, when discussing things people do, especially their plans, a best scenario is to be employed, becuause people aren't fucking amelia bedelia and if they are we want to find out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at issue is your very poor (through being inflexible) best scenario/worst scenario context switching. so : it is the habit of engineers to consider the worst scenario when building a house, which is how houses end up 3.5x structurally stronger than thyey need to be. because holy hell, what if rocks fall or the ground moves or there's very wet snow or some idiot gets confused and parks his car on your roof. howev
asciilifeform: for the most part, asciilifeform did not touch any of this code. reasoning was, that it is part of the historic record.
asciilifeform: (i am speaking strictly of provably-unreachable routines. there are others that could be snipped, with some work, without affecting semantics)
asciilifeform: btw since folx are itchy to snippety-snip, i will note, there is actual dead code in trb
mircea_popescu: the two items discussed were "modularize wallet" and "remove btc address signatures". they're in the 2-5 hour range for a very careful single engineer.
mircea_popescu: in the time everyone spent arguing with various phantoms they could have actually done all the work that was therein contemplated.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because if folx must ruin bitcoin via discontinuity ('you can always dig up historical code laters'), non-exhaustive pseudo-reference implementations, etc. i'd rather they understood what they were doing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why the fuck are you so obstructive anyway
mircea_popescu: holy shit two hours of this nonsense
ben_vulpes: highly prehensile, or prezhensile as the tenderqueers would say
mircea_popescu: i thought you wrote all this shit on a touchpad anyway.
ben_vulpes: guessing at definitions from context, but with all the excitement of html css and js
ben_vulpes: i didn't know anyone browsed the web with browsers anyways, i thought the en vogue thing to do was just to read the source and sort of intuit where the boxes went
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:12 ben_vulpes: perhaps a low-dough point: vpatches ensure that functionality will always be available, regardless of weight of "current" version
mircea_popescu: Browser shots Sorry service is down for maintanence << dude they're not even trying anymore, the web's deader than shannen doherty's career
mircea_popescu: used to be cool, thbat thing
ben_vulpes: There were already 188 screenshot requests for cascadianhacker.com today.
ben_vulpes: i will not defensively css against the width at which archive.is renders websites
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: that's not a browser
deedbot: http://cascadianhacker.com/gaze-upon-their-works-ye-mighty-and-tremble << CH - Gaze upon their works, ye mighty, and tremble
mircea_popescu: it's already the size of a patch
mircea_popescu: no see, that's the problem
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes dawg you aware your articles go in this 160px column ?
mircea_popescu: i gotta see this wonder, ch display possibly one of the more atrocious
ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/perceived-vs-actual-barriers-to-homeownership-for-young-adults/comment-page-1#comment-178 << asciilifeform responded, also comments properly threaded nao
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 22:17 asciilifeform: i killed those right after baking the genesis
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608633 <<< o noes, mebbe someone important we never heard about had something important to alert about ☝︎
asciilifeform brb, teatime
mircea_popescu: this is exactly how that goes.
asciilifeform: therr is a whole dream-trilema that asciilifeform sometimes reads in sleep.
mircea_popescu: well there is that but nevertheless, guy said plainly he's noob tring to learn.