asciilifeform: decimation: as part of the traditional protocol, yes

asciilifeform: those of us who choose to run public nodes - can

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has the right idea - deliberately underspecify the seed list

asciilifeform: decimation: turdatron is a central point of failure

asciilifeform: 'muhammed will not go to mountain, let mountain go to muhammed'

asciilifeform gets idea

asciilifeform: ^ werks

asciilifeform: so we sit, waiting for all-comers to plug in? sure.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: outside-world addrs will not spontaneously appear in a cliquegraph

asciilifeform: l0l

asciilifeform: with only our nodes

asciilifeform: but presumably we aren't trying to build a closed parallel universe

asciilifeform: well, perhaps not one, but... 7? (therealbitcoinfoundation)

asciilifeform: but there are 1000 holes, and one cock

asciilifeform: however this leaves the 'what seeds' question open still.

asciilifeform is a firm student of 'the best machine is no machine' and like the solution of not even having a solution to the 'what seeds' thing

asciilifeform: lol

asciilifeform: for some reason i thought we were still thinking in the 'gifts to gurlz at parties' train of thought

asciilifeform: well then user has to fill it up.

asciilifeform: sometimes - done

asciilifeform: it's like collecting random sample of water from sewer

asciilifeform: (term of art from crypto world)

asciilifeform: not for 'democracy' but for 'nothing-up-me-sleeve'

asciilifeform: i.e. random sampling of planet

asciilifeform: derived via port scan.

asciilifeform: to backtrack, my earlier suggestion was to ship them with a basic list (a few hundred addrs)

asciilifeform: canon?

asciilifeform: should have specified.

asciilifeform: so these are not working nodes out of the box.

asciilifeform: well, when filling the crate, what is to be placed in the configs?

asciilifeform: decimation: catch22

asciilifeform: decimation: that needs a blockchain!

asciilifeform: i will not know where the contents of the crate will be plugged in

asciilifeform: but what is to be found there ?

asciilifeform: whence should they look for seeds ?

asciilifeform: say i were to prepare a crate of pogos today

asciilifeform: (to whom, precisely, are they to speak?)

asciilifeform: and introduces a central point of choke

asciilifeform: ip of my pogo << that'd mean having these identify selves to one another specifically

asciilifeform: but that it be performed, now and again, as a scientific enterprise

asciilifeform did not suggest that a node carry out the scan!

asciilifeform: but derived how?

asciilifeform: well yes

asciilifeform: nor any believable public data on versions.

asciilifeform: whereas normal people are stuck wondering how many public btc nodes, and afaik there is not a believable public number anywhere

asciilifeform: enough to eat with arse.

asciilifeform: note that enemy has all the portscans he can ever wish for.

asciilifeform: !up Vexual

asciilifeform: (proofofwork is not a magical pill against every conceivable form of molestation, only the immediately profitable forms)

asciilifeform: or are we to believe that a protocol carried 100% in cleartext, on unique tcp port - is not being molested ?

asciilifeform: zap whatever compartments and cliques may have formed naturally (or unnaturally...) in the graph.

asciilifeform: random selection of nodes from whole planet.

asciilifeform: ^ i would much like to see that mega-portscan happen. it is really the only sane way to generate a proper seedlist.

asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000044.html

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking of the mostly failed revolts in fr, elsewhere

asciilifeform: '48 rather

asciilifeform: and knowing what the hell they're doing

asciilifeform: or - coordination.

asciilifeform: more courage would have made a difference ?

asciilifeform: so, let's take the malcontents of europe circa 1849.

asciilifeform: who can disagree.

asciilifeform: sitting on a sharpened pine tree fsckinghurts

asciilifeform: same reason a fella sitting on the stake 'bitches'

asciilifeform: how many folks in usa can survive a month w/out 'business as usual' (mains, fuel, water, just-in-time deliveries to local 'food' shops)

asciilifeform: in which few, other than obvious idiots and easily controlled orcs, care to 'throw stones'

asciilifeform: usa is a proverbial 'glass house'

asciilifeform: as it does not guarantee that the 'generals' march simultaneously or in any useful pattern at all

asciilifeform: and not an especially effective solution

asciilifeform: suicidal courage is but one solution to the byzantine generals conundrum

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the rebellion thing is not a cowardice problem as such but actually a byzantine generals problem.

asciilifeform: 'if the chinese were to jump from stools 1 metre heigh upon hearing the signal over the radio...'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever have a ru physics textbook with the jumping chinese example ?

asciilifeform: ( http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cars-database-Drug-Enforcement-Administration-license-plates/2015/01/27/id/620928 )

asciilifeform: 'The DEA has designed this program to assist with locating, identifying, and seizing bulk currency, guns, and other illicit contraband moving along the southwest border and throughout the United States.'

asciilifeform: and the reason why 1 machinegunner can guard 500 prisoners

asciilifeform: this is basically solzhenitsyn's theorem

asciilifeform: are there even half a million in north a.

asciilifeform: half a million people shoot half a million cops << lol

asciilifeform: !s solzhenitsyn axe

asciilifeform: but who will take it.

asciilifeform: which is to say, a good bit of

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your advice makes the same amount of sense as solzhenitsyn's

asciilifeform: cash << guess who'll be waiting for the cash car on the interstate.

asciilifeform: 'Karrasch also found he could not use the popular accounting software QuickBooks to pay receipts because of the nature of his business.' --- enjoy 'the cloud' !

asciilifeform: nor gunpowder.

asciilifeform: just not the boomsticks themselves (regulated)

asciilifeform: 'I can’t use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products.' -- plenty of small-arms related junk on 'amazon'

asciilifeform: 'maintain small government' is like 'maintain small tumour.'

asciilifeform: well that's usg.

asciilifeform: and someone would still have to come up with electronic bezzlars to pay tax with - or the tax squads descend

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e.g., everybody in the store would need to move to that planet

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see the old threads re: nontriviality of hooking up to cash world from scratch

asciilifeform: 'the bus, mmm, broke down, mm. -we're- the bus now.' --- 'bangbus'

asciilifeform: own arses.

asciilifeform: let'em patent sky, earth, sea

asciilifeform: famous street-pizza kitchen

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: i distinctly recall hearing of it before

asciilifeform: at least a few months?

asciilifeform: wasn't that an old idiocy ?