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22200+ entries in 0.012s
mircea_popescu: yea, they're stumbling in the direction, blindly.
diana_coman: or hm, it relies on frequent tags rather than words so not quite reflecting the content
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: come to think of it, the "cloud of tags" is the closest thing to the above in that it changes indeed as content is added; I don't recall if it provides direct link to articles but at least it reflects the content as is
mircea_popescu: illogical, granted, but to me the expectation's obviouis
mircea_popescu: no, they expected.
diana_coman: true; though it does get added gradually anyway and they don't really expect to know upfront *everything* that will be added
diana_coman: arguably there are all those projects (like perseus even, perhaps?) where they worked precisely on "lots of digital content how to make it digitally-useful" but I am not aware of something that translates directly
mircea_popescu: but personally, i'm waiting for billymg to emerge, out of his current work. if nothing's clear by then, we can hack. but before, no real benefit, all downsides.
mircea_popescu: and yes, we'll prolly have to hack soemthing togethet to find this out
mircea_popescu: in any case -- the part where categories are useless, tags are where it's at, and they must be recalc'd every article publish is clear. the part where HOW to calculate them in the first place, that's unclear.
mircea_popescu: i suppose nobody wrote enough since the dawn of the digital age for this need to appear and be conceptualized
diana_coman: yes; and ofc there isn't any such thing or we'd have used it, no?
mircea_popescu: can be extended a thousand times, and then broken.
mircea_popescu: basically, each article's tags' lease on life is "until another article is published".
diana_coman: and yes, tags change as knowledge accumulates
mircea_popescu: well, there's no system that currently does this, recalculates the whole cloud tag and each article's tags on each new article published
diana_coman: by writing that article I add to the knowledge my blog reflects i.e. to my public knowledge if you prefer
diana_coman: yes but I don't see the problem with that
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, i mean, that by your writing article 19, the tags of article 2 change
mircea_popescu: that's why nobody has a working system : 1. any meaningful interpretation of "categories" reduces to "tags", so even though implementations give "the choice" it is a dud choice ; and 2. any meaningful implementation of tags requires they change with the blog, whereas every implementation presumes to enter them at the time of publishing (which coincidentally but harmfully overlaps with the "don't alter history" imperative)
diana_coman: they do, as they reflect the material put in; but I don't see a problem with a third person deciding to categorize trilema with whatever tags they think greatest and provide the resulting tags + links as their view of it, what
mircea_popescu: imo tags have to evolve with the blog
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I agree re categories and tags; fwiw I also think that tags should reflect the material as it was put in; basically if one wants to categorize content differently, then they can make their own manual/automated/mixed/whatever tagger and apply it, providing their own view of the content
mircea_popescu: search words are "i know the searcher but not the material, here's soem clues' whereas tags are "i know the material but not the seacher, here's some clues"
mircea_popescu: however you turn this matter around, yes categories make no sense, if you wanted super-titles you'd do chapters. and tags ONLY make sense as the converse to search terms, "here's the words you might wish to search trilema for"
spyked: mircea_popescu, was that http://ossasepia.com/2010/02/21/google-te-prosteste-nu-iti-ofera-doar-mai-multe-oportunitati-sa-o-faci-singur/ ?
mircea_popescu: and needless to say, this bothers me immensely.
mircea_popescu: eg the trilema article i quoted above : i had fully forgotten about. not in the sense that i don't recognize it when i see it, i do, but in the sense that when i penned http://trilema.com/2019/black-or-white-the-day-of-saturday/ which needed it, i did recall to put it in. i've meanwhile corrected this and added the link, but i am certain there's THOUSANDS of such "actually mp, the item you'd link here is this" "oh shit you
mircea_popescu: this augments the ai with human mind, but then again also limits it -- you won't find what you didn't put in.
mircea_popescu: another approach is to just generate the list of most common words on trilema, pick the best ones, and tag with them all the articles that contain them
diana_coman: I would start with something rather simple indeed; and review it, initially it's really a sort of learning wtf in there because I have no idea atm how useful the tags produced would be
mircea_popescu: imo a correct tagging mechanism is the one item missing from http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/
mircea_popescu: on the other hand, something complex, involving linkage and actual attempts at "ai" sesne-making... well
mircea_popescu: on one hand, something simple like "tag each article with the 12 most frequently occuring live words over 3 characters long ; keep a central list of "dead" words that occur in more than x% of articles, re-tag all articles tagged with one of the words there"
diana_coman: the exact approach/algo is the iffy bit re tags but probably won't be able to just come up with it directly working great
mircea_popescu: ~clear to me too that categories aren't worth while.
mircea_popescu: i confess among the papers on my desk there's some various aproaches at word-distance and otherwise auto-tagging
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, so what, autgen the tags ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, yeah i think he's working on it.
diana_coman: tbh with categories also I start wondering if it's working at all or in fact it's still tags more useful anyway, without the pretense of neat and strict classification
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I do; and a few other bits that are on the list to change but on which I kept thinking "there will be a mp-wp theme" and then can tweak; hm, who was it, billymg ?
mircea_popescu: takes for fucking ever to scroll through otherwose
mircea_popescu: btw, don't you find the titles-only style for archives / categories better ?
diana_coman: aha; but atm at least I can't seem to find it either, sadly
mircea_popescu: lol. kinda the purpose of a good rand
diana_coman: hm, I *do* remember the idea but not having properly ranted on it (granted, I tend to forget it if I have a good rant over it, lol)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, srlsy ? the core of the argument was that google lists a supposed number of results, in the bns, but it never disgorges any significant count
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in further archeology, quid quodcumque faciemus, nomina nuda tenemus. trilema dixit!
mircea_popescu: where you were ranting about how it sucks, doesn't even give 5 of its claimed 5bn results, what reason could anyone have to believe the count
mircea_popescu: hey diana_coman where's that article about google!
spyked bbl, teh cotton fields calling
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 12:19:27 asciilifeform: imho would be 9000x better to simply steal the technique and port to e.g. cmucl .
spyked: upstack re erlang: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930095 <-- imho doesn't sound bad at all, given that e.g. feedbot threads communicate exactly through this type of message queue. meanwhile, I notice that there's a "lisp-flavoured erlang" dialect on teh interwebz, but no idea if worth looking into it
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 23:59:49 trinque: if I'm going to bolt znc to it, what point has a lisp bot?
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930246 <-- sooner or later /me is going to dive into sbcl, where he expects to find much of the rot that plagues e.g. python. so wut diff does it make?
spyked: aite, I'll do that
mircea_popescu: make yourself a spyked-genesises-stolen-crap sig, use that.
mircea_popescu: nto v infrastructure, and to use non-main keys for this.
mircea_popescu: this understanding is current as of cca 2016. meanwhile we agreed that because a) it is preferrable to work with republican rather than imperial items and to prevent more imperial seepage than needed ; and because b) there's no limit to signature count as per long standing observations and discussions (with a very early asciilifeform cca 2013 maybe) then therefore the correct approach is to sign things early, to get them i
spyked: mircea_popescu, as I understand the meaning of signature is "I understand how this thing works". if I sign it before reviewing it, there's nothing to show re. my understanding. am I getting this wrong?
mircea_popescu: somebody decides to spend some time towards reviewing. what do they do next ?
mircea_popescu: why first ? think you about it, how is the review supposed to work ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:38:59 trinque: more broadly, the question isn't so much what I could do with whatever IRC bot, it's what the hell should motivate me to sink more time into shit caked atop the thing I wish to see end.
spyked: mircea_popescu, I completely agree. fwiw, I can genesis hunchentoot next thing if somebody asks for it. but would rather have the thing reviewed first, a propos of: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930229 . IMHO gotta document it, so that I don't make the same mistakes when I attempt a sane http replacement
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem wiht ideas is that they're not patches.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-16 13:36:19 spyked: ^ ftr, this is an instance of ircbot sans the "pinger" thread and handling pings coming from the server. seems to be working fine (tho, in all fairness, so does feedbot for now)
spyked: I'm still testing this in #spyked, it seems to be working so far, e.g. >1wk uptime for test-spykedbot: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/spyked/2019-08-23#1000120
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:29:11 trinque: or alternatively, where's my patch spyked ?
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: yes, but the idea is that "let whoever signed the genesis evaluate your patches, rather than do it for them through the venue of keeping them phf'd"
spyked: mircea_popescu, that might be. also, my verbose style of writing reports dun help any
spyked: also runs on ircbot, it *could* conceivably suffer from the same issue.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:25:26 trinque: wtf lol, how would the bot spend a lot of time in the notification mechanism?
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930226 <-- to be clear, discussion was re. rss bot, which is built atop trinque's bot. I made the mistake of having a long-running operation on the main bot thread, which is the same thread that handles pongs and does lag tracking. imho the fault was 100% in the feedbot coad, but if deedbot
mircea_popescu: spyked, i'm starting to suspect, incidentally, that no cheekiness is involved, he simply never saw either instance, does something like two hours/week keeping track of things, and if that week has 25 hours' worth of logs and developments, well, gets 8%. hey trinque, are you current with the logs ? how descriptive is that model /
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 00:00:09 trinque: they have python ones that don't need any such prosthetic
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930247 << actually, they do.
mircea_popescu: the sticking is the very point.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 23:59:49 trinque: if I'm going to bolt znc to it, what point has a lisp bot?
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930246 << and if you're going to stick it into cunt, what point has penis ? wtf q is this.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 22:40:51 asciilifeform: trinque: from the (very fragmentary) clues , seems to me that fella was demoralized somehow, for long time ( and possibly into bottle, tho tbf nothing specifically pointed to bottle )
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930241 << rather's the case, dude watched so much seinfeld he's so very firmly committed to non-committal he'll very happily die of it just to make a point "to the world". whatevers.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:49:13 trinque: fuck me, drop the pretense and get on facebook messenger or w/e the kids use and be done with it
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930233 << i dun really get what this is about, but anyways.
mircea_popescu: i don't intend to negrate him, as things stand, so you're more than welcome to explore wonderful world detailed in the further paragraphs of that comment.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-22 21:51:18 trinque: bringing things in closer, apparently phf's in the hospital or something, and is thus persona non grata?
mircea_popescu: The time to whine about "what it all means" etcetera is henceforth, 'till forever."
mircea_popescu: "Needless to say, I am unamused ; and, to answer the original inquiry in firmer terms containing no ifs or buts : no, I personally have no further interest in hearing what phf may have to say on any topic. The time for "ok then, I will get my logger to spec by X date and hope to have my blog up by Y date" came and went, sometime yesterday.
mircea_popescu: moving on through the list of slightly dissociated questions : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930234 << iirc he was declaring self outpatient by aug 9th ; but yes persona non grata here, as per
mircea_popescu: why tyvm.
spyked: but decided to answer your q first I was here and prolly keeping you waiting would be frustrating
mircea_popescu: i'm guessing i'll get to it later lol.
spyked: mircea_popescu, I was processing logz myself at this very moment, lol :D
spyked: re. evaluation, troo
mircea_popescu: spyked, so why not tell him that lol.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-25 03:30:20 spyked: trinque, could you pl0x share the ircbot auto-reconnect code that you're testing? I wanna give it a spin myself and give some time to ironing out whatever problems I might find.
spyked: mircea_popescu, tbh I find that to be a particularly cheeky question, since I asked him the same on more than one occasion and was greeted with silence.
mircea_popescu: oh yes, and some kind of evaluation of the prev plan.
mircea_popescu: including an answer for trinque, as to, where's his patch. aite.
spyked: mircea_popescu, yes, sorry for the confusion. the plan is to: post hunchentoot ep. 6 today, as per plan; and as september begins, post the plan for next month, which should include all the new things I'm working on (code, reviews of code, whatever arises in the meanwhile)