217300+ entries in 1.716s
mircea_popescu: kolinko no. the system can break itself, too. it doesn't need
a mustachioed antropomorphised enemy.
mircea_popescu: like you knolw, two girls are
a better fuck than just one. provided they're not insane.
kolinko: it's still more secure than trusting
a single party to provide the price, isn't it?
mircea_popescu: course doing
a synth option on
a future is fucking tricky.
The20YearIRCloud: kol - it wouldn't be hard as long as you had
a option to withdraw the USD
kolinko: such
a business would require option trading on the backend. but how could it trade options securely, as of today?
mircea_popescu: experience shows girl under 30 or so has
a lot of trouble reeducating.
kolinko: let's say that I wanted to build
a business that relies on options...
a web wallet that maintains the users' bitcoin balance stable in relation to usd (e.g. I put $100 worth of btc into the wallet, and after
a year I'm almost guaranteed to be able to withdraw $100, regardless of bitcoin price)
ThickAsThieves: so at first i was frustrated at this 1bTCXE trading challenge because basically what it is is they gave everyone
a fake account with half BTC / half USD credits and people are set wild to trade the assets. However, there is no tie to the real market so it's mostly
a psychological/economical experiment. In this case, is there theory on how such
a market would play out?
mircea_popescu: imo the avenue to this standardisation is, once moloko delivers the registrar of deeds, and if indeed we want to do
a lot of option trade,
kolinko: what I'm really trying to figure out is whether people would be willing to try such
a system
ThickAsThieves: for me, arguing against centralization as
a broad value is silly
kolinko: as for people being bothered into doing this - it's
a valid question, but one that can only be answered by trying it in practice
mircea_popescu:
a system that either works as intended or not at all is the holy grail of unbreakability.
mircea_popescu: this is the main advantage of an overlord that the decentralize fanboys tend to ignore. if you have
a good overlord, the system is unbreakable period.
kolinko: well, every system is breakable. it's just
a question of probability
mircea_popescu: but this also happens to be the definition of
a sybil vulnerability.
ThickAsThieves: decentralization as an ideal doesnt really exist, it's just
a degree of centralization
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nah, he's just trying to solve
a fundamental problem through implementation and got blindsided by
a theoretical exposition of it.
mircea_popescu: kolinko if you have
a process to go from 1 party to two, then you have
a sybil problem. and to have 15 you necessarily must have had that process.
kolinko: what I meant is - if you have
a system of 15 parties, each one of them signing messages with their own gpg keys, that can be quite secure against the sybil attack. the attacker would have to steal keys of 8 independent parties.
mircea_popescu: anyway, sybil attacks are specifically not
a problem in anon systems. if you go for
a romp in
a gay cinema, to be fucked by
a random man, it makes no difference to you who fucks you, so you can't be sybil'd by definition.
mircea_popescu: you are wrong in the first. sybil attacks are
a problem on all systems that rely on identity to any degree.
kolinko: well, sybil attack is really only
a problem in systems that rely on anonymous parties
mircea_popescu: circle cvadrature is not
a question of "get better draing tools"
mircea_popescu: these aren't simple problems, and they're unsimple for fundamental reasons, it's not
a matter of implementation.
kolinko: well, but if we had
a panel of 15 trustworthy individuals, with
a consensus of more than 50% of them required to release the fund
kolinko: the idea for the distributed contract was that if I want to build
a business that relies on options, such
a business shouldn't rely on
a single individual/company
kolinko: mircea: I'll read the misc in
a sec. as for your volume - I know it well - I'm your user since 2012 iirc
gribble: Error: 'appcodes' is not
a valid integer.
mircea_popescu:
a "single point of failure" is
a trustworthy individual by definition anyway.
mircea_popescu: and when you're done with that, to put things in perspective for you, mpex carried about 1mn total btc worth of options over
a coupla years.
kolinko: (the idea is that
a smart contract would be protected by
a set of trustworthy individuals - no reliance on
a single point of failure)
kolinko: and I'm thinking of building
a bitcoin smart contract for put/call options
kolinko: cool, will do that in
a few minutes
kolinko: I founded Orisi two months ago (orisi.org) - it's
a framework for building smart contracts
nubbins`: what's the word for when something is made to look like
a human?
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 10:10:37; xmj: do yourself
a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools
mircea_popescu: i can arrive at
a formulation of what the op thinks that i can integrate, it just takes an op that can answer questions for long enough :D
mircea_popescu: this is
a purely logical approach, i have nfi of how it practically works
mircea_popescu: fluffypony ok, so if we accept this avenue exists, then
a blacklisting scheme would not logically be expected to resolve it, just move the problem.
fluffypony: when I graylist you then you have to reconnect to me from
a new peer and submit
a bad block
fluffypony: you can't reconnect as
a new IP fast enough
fluffypony: if you just want to DDoS them from
a bandwidth perspective there are easier ways like LOIC
mircea_popescu: dos is dos, as long as you can't use
a service because of
a 3rd party it's
a denial of service.
fluffypony: the point of the DoS is to burn CPU cycles and tie up the CPU of
a peer
fluffypony: it graylists peers that try submit
a bad block
mircea_popescu: " but assuming you accept its technical tradeoffs (slow block verification leading to increased susceptibility to block-flooding DoS attacks, in favor of
a balance between CPU, GPU, and ASICs)" << stuff like that sounds like
a total ouch.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you feel like reading up on all this crap and produce
a summary ? but i mean
a good one, like
a disertation level thing.
mircea_popescu: "This coin's enthusiasts contribute to the applied aspects of the CryptoNote technology. It has been launched as
a fork of Bytecoin in April 2014. Bitmonero/Monero was subject to
a quarrel among the community members on the choice of name. Nevertheless, its contribution is valuable to CryptoNote’s popularization. Moreover, it has the fastest block generation speed of 1 minute."
mircea_popescu: "It is designed to have zero commercial value since its genesis block is replaced every 2 months." this is
a pretty good way to do it, actually.
mircea_popescu: (this based on history of human tech, the speed of difussion of tech inovations as
a function of their added efficiency. for instance the iron plow was about 7-8x more efficient than the shit it replaced, and it took over practically in the same generation. meanwhile longbows were not 2x more effectual over cataphracts, and they took about
a century to take over)
mircea_popescu: i mean don't get me wrong, active experimental research in "o yeah, those asics are that cool ?" is quite valuable and
a good use of one's time.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yes - but that's
a capex cost, we're discussing the opex cost. At some point in the future when there actually are ASICs I suppose
a ratio could be shown that includes the amortised cost of the hardware over time or something
mircea_popescu: what i mean is, i'm
a kid with
a computer, i have to pay $200 for
a new video card, and each watt gives me 1 thing. this other kid pays $500 for
a consumer asic, each watt gives him... 5 things. the price of
a thing will reflect this, going to ~1/4 the price of
a watt, making me able to buy
a lot more things for my $200 directly than i'd get mining ?
dub: mircea_popescu: there's also the problem of motivating
a guy holding
a stick to charge at muskets
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: ASIC will likely outperform
a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge. << if this is per watt, wouldn't it be quite huge ?
mircea_popescu: punkman: I made
a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao! << dare i ask what xmr is or would that spoil the whole trader thing.
mircea_popescu: dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of
a technilogically advanced imperial invasion << quite. just like the forum retards, the general response of the primitive mind to "o boy, this guy's so much better than you, better learn how to suck cock" is "lalala i can't hear anything"
assbot: Apple Just Uploaded
A U2 Album To Your iPhone And iPad — And Seriously, WTF | TechCrunch
xmj: is he
a name one should recognize?
xmj: friend of mine's got
a spare, doesn't know what to do with it
fluffypony: xmj: it won't at all, it's
a different PoW
xmj: you create
a shar like so:
xmj: do yourself
a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools
☟︎ fluffypony: 90% of the time when there's
a quirky PoW it's inevitably
a scam
punkman: fluffypony: was reading that blogpost again, got an idea. Someone should come up with quirky PoW, and manufacture
a hardware miner before launching the coin. Then they slowly ramp up the hashrate, start selling the hardware when profits level off.
fluffypony: "Note that GPUs *do* outperform CPUs, of course -- it's just that it's only
a factor of two or three. Which is pretty remarkable. And an ASIC will likely outperform
a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge."
fluffypony: punkman: indeed - although the GPU miners are starting to ramp up
a bit
punkman: I made
a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao!
dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of
a technilogically advanced imperial invasion
RagnarDanneskjol: BingoBoingo - You know for
a fact I made efforts to gain better clarity between parties from our pm earlier. All the recruitment I have done for b-
a has been out of the kindness of my heart (which is
a lot btw in terms of time spent - well over 60 hrs)
dub:
A similar belief in the mystical power to avert bullets had earlier been reported among Islamic groups in Africa and Asia[7] and America, such as the Ghost Shirt Movement.
RagnarDanneskjol: I am 33. Have been
a recruiter since I was 18. what the hell does that have to do with it
gribble: Error: "Knicker" is not
a valid command.
KODE_YETI: the "command" key on this altop has
a hole in its black coating due to meta use
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2014 02:36:18; asciilifeform: 'The smell of diborane is known to
a few experimenters, but they cannot tell us what it is.'
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: I have
a masters degree in Library Science. This is not cursed. This is totally fucked by American Standards.
mircea_popescu: you don't understand asciilifeform. europe sits on
a lake of wine the size of michigan