log☇︎
211600+ entries in 0.118s
ben_vulpes: well there is the protocolitic commitment that if the transaction is included, the miner will receive a fee, but that's it.
asciilifeform: aside from ad-hoc wires-for-pay and other orc duct tape
asciilifeform: from mempool operator to tx author -> 'oh here, take your dump, i PROMISE!111 i won't just throw it into the toilet'
asciilifeform: in the direction of tx-author -> mempool : 'here, i'ma take a dump, and YOU verify and store it'
ben_vulpes: is the cask system design necessarily exclusive of a mempool design?
asciilifeform: and yes, this only works with nodes that have cryptographically hard identity. and not with the syphilitic orgy familiar to classical trb users.
asciilifeform: key is to abolish the maybe-money in favour of money, and throw out the perhaps-potatoes in favour of definitively and immediately palpable potatoes.
asciilifeform: where you avoid the situation from mircea_popescu's old essay where 'in broken market, you give a bag of maybe-money in return for a bag of perhaps-potatoes' and everybody goes home to learn how cheated he was
asciilifeform: the cask scheme is simply a way to impedance-match a high tx pressure to finite space in blocks, with maximally (afaik) frictionless market.
asciilifeform: note that the miner is theoretically free to distribute some, or all of, the space in his block in any other way -- e.g. via dartboard, or sheep entrails, etc
asciilifeform: (miner can, if he likes, connect mouth hose directly to own arse, for so long as his blocks validate, he will simply forgo the fees then )
asciilifeform: not for anyone other than the miner
ben_vulpes: and there's no way to get transactions into blocks absent casks, right?
asciilifeform: when you roll a cask, you are saying, ultimately -- to a tx maker -- 'there is a place in a block reserved for your tx, fire away'
ben_vulpes: yes, you walked the promises side of the problem exhaustively.
asciilifeform: a promise that can be 'takebacked' any time, is no promise at all
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you didn't miss, there is no such thing
asciilifeform: (in trb, you also, recall, have the tx index db, and literally nobody knows what the dynamics are there)
ben_vulpes: subject of trbi, did i miss a way for a parent to cancel a cask ask shy of fibbing?
asciilifeform: in classical trb, you have the 1MB/10min worstcase. but tightbounds are better.
asciilifeform: you bolt in a disk, and know 'this many TB -- this many year'
asciilifeform: incidentally there is ye olde disk-is-full. and in future trbi with fixedwidth tx and block, node knows ~exactly when disk will fill, years in advance.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, recall our ancient discussion re "buried nodes" and my reluctance ? dja understand HOW MANY OF THESE THERE ARE, silent unknown failure modes ?
asciilifeform: whereas if your node is launched to pluto, and you know that you will never read the log -- turn it off !
asciilifeform: rotate -- manually. when you're satisfied that there is no further use for the multi-GB log
asciilifeform: this is why i don't think much of auto-rotation
asciilifeform: incidentally, ben_vulpes , if mircea_popescu had ANY kind of reasonable log rotation in his node -- i would have had nothing to work with !
asciilifeform: (and with , i picture, much better detail than stock trb's log )
asciilifeform: and yes, if you want to debug, you gotta log. don't think the enemy doesn't log your plaintext.
asciilifeform: these are the smallest, by far, problems
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: rotation and timestamping.
ben_vulpes: this is a desirable situation? that trb logging include timestamps and shit into log that which came from whom?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what's that do
ben_vulpes: aight, aight, i forget that i'm the only person using svlogd
asciilifeform: but this is a laugh.
asciilifeform: and in response to what.
asciilifeform: or what was sent, and to whom
ben_vulpes: hash and height for that matter
asciilifeform: and not only truncated (why?!) txid
asciilifeform: not only timestamp is missing, also
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as is screamingly obvious from the earlier thread with mircea_popescu -- the debug log is terrifyingly inadequate for ~any serious work
asciilifeform: but i will leave this to other folx for nao
asciilifeform: what the thing really needs is 'indicator lamp', i.e. a field in getstatus that shows last event that happened on each wire.
asciilifeform: yes, because you go on a month's voyage and come back to 0 clue.
ben_vulpes: off the cuff, would an exponential whine backoff suck?
asciilifeform: there is no prioritization because of trb's fundamentally idiotic uniprocess socket handling. ( if there is no preemption - there can be no meaningful prioritization ! ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: (i was unable to think of any reasonable way around this. if you silence the whine, you will never know that your wire peers dropped.)
asciilifeform: in fact if the peer on the other end of the wire goes down, you will get multi-MB whine in your log.
asciilifeform: the one thing you are guaranteed is that your node won't perma-drop the wire.
asciilifeform: now it is also important to understand the limitations of the current wires patch. there is ~no~ prioritization .
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: congrats to you, you did all the hard work. tank brigade goes nowhere without the engineers laying down bridgework
asciilifeform: and if you have a trb built with wires, it is 10min work (on client end), 10 seconds on the master.
asciilifeform: imho the Right Thing is, each node is wired to a handful of serious people.
ben_vulpes: it is what, ten minutes of work to set the master up
ben_vulpes: i don't have a master in place yet, but i am also willing to extend wire peerings to my l1
asciilifeform: ( ideally this won't end up a star topology around this 1 poor box !! )
asciilifeform: congrats to ben_vulpes , the first d00d to request , and be issued, a wire to dulap.
ben_vulpes: hey hey! i've got a node wired up to dulap.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D20C2568A16A9E767370BA58A20ED6B2AE063D889E43A436B94BC613FC328C47 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...9937 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.176.90 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.176.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (backoffice.c4h.com. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D20C2568A16A9E767370BA58A20ED6B2AE063D889E43A436B94BC613FC328C47 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...2833 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.176.90 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.176.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (backoffice.c4h.com. DE)
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 01:53 asciilifeform: (if you ~only~ requested by height, anyone could put you on 1way voyage to pluto and you'll stay there.)
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1621939 << I am not sure this would happen, you would still have to verify the blocks - unless you have absolutely no connection to anybody else, in which case you would be equally stuck under current conditions ☝︎
asciilifeform: in pygmystan, they have not invented writing yet, gotta retell same yarn again and again and... again. we -- have writing.
asciilifeform: mrottenkolber: could try reading the logs
mrottenkolber: wait trilema is a person
asciilifeform: evidence, evidently, is something to demand of mr.t only ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: (i don't recall seeing a 'ru mega-hack accusation ... no evidence' in the beobachter.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, völkischer beobachter entertains, https://archive.is/XajR5 << 'President Trump on Saturday angrily accused former president Barack Obama of orchestrating a “Nixon/Watergate” plot to tap the phones at his Trump Tower headquarters last fall in the run-up to the election .. no evidence ...'
asciilifeform: digested, as per the log, more or less immediately
asciilifeform: btw mircea_popescu your node spent ages trying to ~get hold of~ 419221. not to digest it.
mircea_popescu: very miserable design for a "peer to peer" network.
asciilifeform: because - i dare say - they ain't nodes
mircea_popescu: it's about my own conclusion. i'd say it belies the need for some fixing.
asciilifeform: and if you grep this for 00000000000000000136 , guess what
mircea_popescu: so the working theory being, that a) node spent ~weeks trying to digest block 419221 and failing ; b) eventually managed but by then not able to obtain the next one because of reasons discussed except ; c) recently it managed to briefly connect to the magic node it would talk to and get another 100 or so blocks ?
asciilifeform: but interestingly, quite recently was able to reconnect to the 'first connected to' node, the idiocy i described yesterday, and sync just a bit.
asciilifeform: ~that~ was where the thing sat stalled, for eons
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are 1955176872 lines of debug.log between block 419220 and 419221
mircea_popescu: phf unsurprising ; indian industrialization happened mostly under the soviet... "influence".
phf: back then su was pumping resources into india, but according to su economic strategy that mostly resulted in factories and hospitals. now americans are pumping resources, but that mostly results in moar mcdonalds. so naturally men with long memories are testy ☟︎
phf: it means indians and russians are brothers, and is a slogan for soviet/indian friendship from about 50s to 80s
ben_vulpes: what is this bhai bhai?
asciilifeform: i have nfi in what shithole today anyone likes the americans.
phf: in related lulz i got a lot of "soviet union was a good thing" from conversations with indians. a lot of older indians seem to hate americans and miss the good old "bhai bhai" days
phf: what i'm trying to say is "hindi rusi bhai bhai" :p
phf: also i can't really go back to the cave. it's the time to buy gifts, and pack shit up.
asciilifeform: phf: most of today is re mircea_popescu showed a trb node that's been wedged, in a peculiar way, since july. but the l0g will still be there later.
asciilifeform: phf: nothing is missing, you can go back to meditation cave if you like
phf: i'm mostly reacting to "things missing" bit. i otherwise would like to remain ignorant of going ons in the world, until i'm forced into interracting with it again in a few days
asciilifeform: phf: he uploaded entire blk0036 in the end, see l0gz
asciilifeform: also the recipe is pretty simple. gpg over the pubkey and you're golden.
asciilifeform: i'll be around for most of tomorrow yea
mircea_popescu: and otherwise, i bid all a very good thight
mircea_popescu: if you're around tomorrow mebbe we do that ?
mircea_popescu: now then ; the reason i even looked at this node is that i was going through a list of potential candidates to put in the new asciilifeform ssh thing.
asciilifeform: (if you ~only~ requested by height, anyone could put you on 1way voyage to pluto and you'll stay there.) ☟︎
asciilifeform: but ought to be able to ~sometimes~
asciilifeform: i did not say that it ought to request by height at all times.
asciilifeform: this is entirely tru
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem with "request block by height" is that the block height is an ambiguous identifier of actual blocks.