asciilifeform: as they shouldn't be.

asciilifeform: the folks with xxxxx will not be convinced.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's put it this way. if i built a wallet, and put my x btc in it, no one would say 'this fella really means business'

asciilifeform: anything less, i don't have any interest in signing my name on.

asciilifeform: and a proper auditable and tandem-cpu'd 'wallet' would cost more than anyone is willing to pay.

asciilifeform: 'skin in the game' problem

asciilifeform: anyway there is a reason i don't work on wallets

asciilifeform: !s bitsquatting

asciilifeform: esp. the '90s collectibles you and i are fond of

asciilifeform: i actually don't much like the rf-loudness of pc

asciilifeform: z80

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see, if we're gedankenexperimenting about a mass-produced equivalent of 'pogo', then unreliable hardware can be rationalized, 'отряд не заметил потери бойца' (TM) - what's one flipped bit. if we're gedankening about a 'wallet' - whole other ball game

asciilifeform: nowhere

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where do i spend 500 and get ecc systemonchip?

asciilifeform: i consider it a 'this thing is made of bubblegum because fuck you, you're consumer meat' vector

asciilifeform: by executing code on your machine, or by knowing something about mapping of external world i/o to your ram

asciilifeform: mats: it is only an attack vector if you allow enemy means to hammer

asciilifeform: so it may be a 'if not you then who' situation.

asciilifeform: cost pressure is squarely in opposite direction.

asciilifeform: this bodes ill for use of off-the-shelf si.

asciilifeform: and i actually don't know of any system-on-chip that includes one

asciilifeform: need ecc ram controller then

asciilifeform: ecc ?

asciilifeform: i don't even see 'rowhammer' as a security item, as such. just an indicator of 'this system is built on snot and bubblegum'

asciilifeform: this is non-negotiable in my mind.

asciilifeform: unflipped.

asciilifeform: see, when i use memory, and put bits in, i expect to get them out later.

asciilifeform: (your intel not the other intel)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: did intel ever mention rowhammer ?

asciilifeform: !s rowhammer

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope and not sure that i would ask for ddr3

asciilifeform: nubbins`: no reason to marry marvell

asciilifeform: most of the ones i've purchased and cut open thus far have very similar 8 to 16-bit wide sdram (ddr2 typically) - almost always 'hynix' or samsung

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: hence the near inevitability of having these baked like grown men

asciilifeform: 'this' being the certain doom of pogo as off-the-shelf machine? yes, it is necessary to do something. main boojum is the ram-poverty of most available hardware in that weight class.

asciilifeform: (it was pretty clear right off the bat that it's a loss-leader and ergo nonrenewableresource)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been looking since before i mentioned pogo in b-a

asciilifeform: perhaps by this time next year - i'll have a part number

asciilifeform: if someone has idle hands that can do a bit of digging - appreciated.

asciilifeform: just cost and feature parity.

asciilifeform: anyway -it doesn't have to be a marvell-

asciilifeform: marvell registered in bermuda, l0l

asciilifeform: Chillum: and if you can't get those, new line of work

asciilifeform: Chillum: then you need new clients

asciilifeform: (that's usually how you get cut-tapes from vendors who don't sell'em)

asciilifeform: http://www.marvell.com/embedded-processors/kirkwood << no mention of samplez

asciilifeform: nubbins`: i am not interested in vendors who need a sexual relationship just to source parts for prototype.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as you can probably guess, i won't be making it just yet.

asciilifeform: and i fucking hate bga

asciilifeform: punkman: too heavy

asciilifeform: but that was just a hour's dig.

asciilifeform: the other day i checked out what other system-on-chips might be cut-tapeable and have integrates sata, found nothing

asciilifeform: (term of art)

asciilifeform: nubbins`: this is my working hypothesis, marvell doesn't sell cut-tape

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a meta search

asciilifeform: it normally has pretty accurate figures

asciilifeform: 'marvell' per se doesn't turn up much either.

asciilifeform was idly toying with determining what pogotron might actually cost to make in quantity

asciilifeform: https://octopart.com/search?q=marvell%20%2088F6192 << interestingly, it's either extinct or octo (a paul graham co.!) lies, lies.

asciilifeform: pi1 was armv6, pi2 - armv7

asciilifeform: arm is notoriously fragmented into incompatible turddoms

asciilifeform: trinque: note that each such board is likely wanting its own gcc

asciilifeform: (buildroot demands nothing but your platform's native gcc and takes it from there until the bitter end, the actual armv5 images)

asciilifeform: trinque: by all means build cross-compiler for your system, but when i put the buildroot thing up it will carry its own

asciilifeform: trinque: danielpbarron's

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: i meant, in the machines

asciilifeform: danielpbarron: no other differences ?

asciilifeform: (vendor's 24W brick)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: old buggered mechanical satas aren't quite as nice, but certainly usable. the thing definitely sources sufficient amps for them

asciilifeform: make a $100 node << 100 buys a pogo and a reasonable solid state sata

asciilifeform: ...good old Commodore 64 >>> http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/parallelsid/parasid.html

asciilifeform: <nubbins`> wouldja believe this is the first piece of kit i've modded that /isn't/ a synthesizer? << notice the unpopulated row of pins at bottom end of pcb? those are gpio's and you can attach random strange to them

asciilifeform: (i.e. internal flash totally b0rked including uboot)

asciilifeform: nubbins`: http://imgur.com/dR3tx16 << technically it wasn't really -bricked- unless you had to do the boot-via-xmodem thing

asciilifeform: tried soldering a sata on see what happens ? << it is quite likely missing some of the passives too

asciilifeform: send>40 faux usg academics up the river for 20+ eyars << weren't they chinese? or is this a different set of hucksters this time

asciilifeform speaking to pet is most of the way unintelligible to bystanders, for instance

asciilifeform did this to the folks he works with in meatspace, also to some extent

asciilifeform: but no - imensaTRON!!1 << l0l

asciilifeform once had a full-blown build of xorg and other userland under cygwin, when worked in usg and forced to use winblows box

asciilifeform: l0l lusers will install cygwin runtime? aha, sure.

asciilifeform: and reintroduction of winblows? ugh.

asciilifeform: a 30G++++ screen saver ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you recall, nubbins` did discovere where to get if you felt like it.

asciilifeform: but if mircea_popescu has a railroad car it'll be great for morale & lulz

asciilifeform: mine - was here

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your crate or mine

asciilifeform: Chillum: pretty much everyone reading this has fiber to the grounds and a crate of small computers, just as happenstance

asciilifeform: aws is the 'mcdonalds' of hosting.

asciilifeform: Chillum: can't speak for others but i in particular am interested specifically in migrating -from- aws

asciilifeform believes that 'meatgap' would be a more descriptive term for the concept

asciilifeform: (note to n00bs - this is a good place to point out that the 'air' in an airgap is more than physical concept: i.e. a machine controlled via radio in real time is not 'airgapped')

asciilifeform: Chillum: we do human skin parchments instead of white papers here.

asciilifeform: if you like

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: feel free to lift the ascii jolly roger from http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000038.html for the warning banner...

asciilifeform: nah he read the patches and upchucked

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i don't expect to see this

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be hilarious if someone found, built, then cried