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asciilifeform: ( usg's nsa has an ancient charter, nominally still in effect, where somehow 'not spy inside usa'. but this is made into joke, instead route packet via britain, where identical branch office w/ same bugs )
girlattorney: tried many times to research on this
girlattorney: BingoBoingo i think you aren't aware that currently there isn't an IP route from fortaleza to eu
asciilifeform: girlattorney: sometimes this reaches 'comedy' level, i.e. you're connecting from washington to new york and it goes -- evidently -- through london
BingoBoingo: There's several SA to Europe pipes, Almost all of them go through Fortaleza, Brazil
asciilifeform: the (consistent) delays you can measure with own hands, are quite revealing of the actual physical topology.
asciilifeform: almost certainly to north amer.
asciilifeform: this may be so . and given the delay b/w e.g. piz & europistan, i'm quite certain the packets go a few undocumented 'extra' 1000 km .
girlattorney: that fiber that already exist from brazil to portugal is only used for telephone traffic (can't remember where i read this)
girlattorney: won't change much politically, but this cable has the potential to lower the overseas link prices
asciilifeform: girlattorney: there's supposedly a fiber from brazil to portugal, iirc, but still owned by reich-controlled conglomerate afaik.
girlattorney: *is that
girlattorney: what is sad if that currently if you are in europe, to reach south america, you HAVE to pass through USA
asciilifeform: girlattorney: see also this predicted endgame for internet in usa.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: correct. in usa there are a great number of 'televison'-flavoured nominally ip-based services, and they mostly do not use the actual net at all, but instead connect to a cabinet in the isp's local house.
girlattorney: but then when you go outside, you instantly go from a 10 lanes road to a single lane road
asciilifeform: when you get out of the reich space, it begins to very much matter where you are vis-a-vis your peer.
girlattorney: just to feed netflixers
girlattorney: read the bingo bongo post about cdn and local intranets with load of bandwith
asciilifeform: the 'flat topology' of the net is largely an illusion.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: isps in the nato reich seem 'fast' , but only for so long as the connecting peer is also in the reich. connectivity to the free world is rather more limited.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: today piz is an 'all you can eat' shop, from subscriber pov. but eventually will have to meter.
asciilifeform: but sometimes this falls to 50, or worse, when 1 or more of the piz inhabitants is at high load.
asciilifeform: currently we do not have precise measurement in realtime. but on most days i can get 100-500kB/s to my box there (from usa)
girlattorney: if i can ask, what is the oversell rate of a pizarro grade isp?
asciilifeform: real pipe is quite expensive. at e.g. piz it is substantial % of the operating cost.
asciilifeform: net connectivity only seems cheap because residential isp 'oversell' their capacity.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: trying to get trb box for 20 is rather like trying to get luxury automobile for 1000
asciilifeform: girlattorney: it is difficult to get anything for so little. in some parts of europistan, e.g. romania, residential (claimed) GB fiber goes for ~10/mo, but industrial rack slot with guaranteed mains current and bandwidth still closer, last i knew, to that 100 figure
girlattorney: 100 a month is too much, im in the 20 range atm
asciilifeform: in most places, a trb-grade box leases for equiv. of maybe 100 $ (usa) .
girlattorney: but i'll get in touch to have an idea of prices and availability
girlattorney: i must disclose that at the current value of BTC i'm haven't got so much to justify multiple nodes in expensive colos
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 13:40:12 girlattorney: i was trying to moving it on a better colo and left everything off for a while
asciilifeform: girlattorney: re colo -- talk with diana_coman , who has been surveying various colos. ( piz is pretty packed in re trb, has no fewer than 3 operating nodes . and really these benefit from being dispersed geographically, rather than concentrated in 1-2 cages ! )
asciilifeform: girlattorney: usg takes the 'rats in a barrel' approach to ipv4, they hog 80+% of the ip space and wait for the remaining people to choke from crowding and eventually submit to centralized control
girlattorney: i've read that with ripe ncc you have your loa with your own ip space, if you "fucks up" 3 times announcing blocks, the peers connected to you have to disconnect
BingoBoingo: Anyone else waiting for one of their nodes to eat and spread block 592450?
asciilifeform: slowly the 'soft' is going out, and instead 'hard'
asciilifeform: rather than to compete with arpa's
asciilifeform: girlattorney: the washingtonization of the net was 'soft-pedalled' so that the few actually independent kingdoms , e.g. ru, would allow their indigenous nets (e.g. 'fido') to fully decay and fall apart
girlattorney: but in the end they are still controlling the v4 and v6 public space allocation
girlattorney: from what i've understood iana is the big boy that decided everything in the beginning, then created some other orgs to give the idea that every continent got it's own independent association
girlattorney: thanks for the insights
BingoBoingo: girlattorney: BGP is held together by routers on the edges of individual networks holding the entire route table in memory. In part there's folks allocating IP address blocks. In the other part there's the routers accepting and/or rejecting updates to the routes they already know.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-21 00:00:24 asciilifeform: ( often enuff there's a concealed -- if not always well-concealed -- roundtrip to london / washington, sitting in 'between austria and switzerland' etc )
asciilifeform: girlattorney: euro backbone is also pretty interesting from this pov.
girlattorney: i'm in europe, so in my case the middleman should be ripe ncc
asciilifeform: they ~would~ like to turn it into something resembling dns.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-25 16:35:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: usg ministry of lulz is trying to push usgtronic 'pki' bgp. so, 1st gotta 'make weather', vandalize a bit, drum up interest.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: presently -- correct. washington is continuously trying to push a washingtonized pseudo-bgp 'replacement' but yet not much uptake.
girlattorney: is not like DNS where there is a precise hierarchy, correct?
girlattorney: and if i have understood correctly in BGP you do advertise your own routes and eventually someone go to your home and say "you cannot advertise these routes"
asciilifeform: ( evidently, as you can see, not too thick to propagate blocks in something like realtime. presently. )
asciilifeform: girlattorney: the major weak point is propagation from miners, who are living in own parallel chinese universe and between whom and trb there is a thick layer of garbage.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: most folks who know how to operate trb, have at least 1 public and some # of unadvertised nodes.
girlattorney: so as long as trb doesn't care about the peers, and there isn't a single point of failure (aka DNS and root servers) we are sound, correct?
asciilifeform: and if running with default config they are invisible to the heathen 'node list' www's.
asciilifeform: the more properly working trb nodes there are -- the less payoff to anyone for monkeying with their connectivity. at present in fact i do not know how many there are. not erryone bothers to advertise .
asciilifeform: can 'fool ~some~ of the people ~some~ of the time' indeed
asciilifeform: girlattorney: bitcoin net presently ~worx simply because 'impossible to fool ~all~ of the people ~all~ of the time'(tm)(r) via ip hijinks
asciilifeform: girlattorney: observe that there is no attempt at authenticating peers in the existing trb. you could easily be connecting to washington's node when thinking yer connecting to e.g. mp_en_viaje's. at one time i published an experimental patch where can route to people you personally know via ssh pipes, but currently not in use anywhere afaik.
girlattorney: in particular i'm referring about BGP hijacking and the general fact that IANA is a third party of a government, that a day could decide to limit the user freedom
girlattorney: btw, after stripping out DNS on my important applications (such as TRB) my question now was about IP space assigned from IANA, could this be in the future an attack vector?
asciilifeform: most of what sits around claiming to be btc node, is really 'pressed-sawdust' simulacra.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: as you have found now to own satisfaction, w/out having to take asciilifeform's word for it -- the actual # of ~working~ (i.e. stores and serves the entire chain) public nodes on the net, is very very small.
girlattorney: i still have the iotop stats, and will make a post somewhere soon with them
girlattorney: then there is also 40 gb from a romanian IP
asciilifeform: unsurprising, these afaik are the most reliable public nodes at this time.
girlattorney: basically most of the juice (chunks of 50-60gb) camed from your node asciilifeform and bingo boingo
asciilifeform: girlattorney: aa, so you had the 'who-gave' patch, neat. unfortunate that lost. would be very interesting to read.
girlattorney: then rebooted the machine and lost the stats
girlattorney: i also had a nice graph made with darkstat about the peers that helped most on syncing from 0
asciilifeform: girlattorney: indeed these are very sensitive to quality of net pipe.
girlattorney: i was trying to moving it on a better colo and left everything off for a while
asciilifeform: girlattorney: before you do, plz clarify, 'left unsynced' means it in fact sat all summer trying to sync and never did?! or switched off ?
girlattorney: I have read the log for a couple of weeks then now logged in to make other questions
girlattorney: almost, then left unsynced at 585k height, but still have the data.
asciilifeform: girlattorney: were you able to make your trb node ?
asciilifeform: ^ i in fact have not had to spoon-feed mine yet. but nao there is from where ! if needs.
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 14d 3h 9m
asciilifeform: diana_coman: dun fughet to put bot & reader in cron, '@reboot ...' etc
diana_coman: but yes, it has to be automated
diana_coman: for the dump I did first a sed for botname and then restore into db
asciilifeform: at some pt we will have to think of a way to mechanize these.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: the gap, yes
asciilifeform: diana_coman: how didja fill in the lines ? /raw/ and by hand ?
diana_coman: not sure if there's some algo to it; my choice was so it's easy to remember/match
asciilifeform: so thereby could actually make it so that the diff bots live at any given time on diff ones
diana_coman: I checked at http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html and !o didn't seem taken but it's not among the "next in line" either
asciilifeform: diana_coman: observe btw that the bot config allows to put ~list~ of fleanode endpoints. so it is not necessary to use the default rotation dnsism, can in fact do like mp_en_viaje does and put list of favourites
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: no hurry; is !o ok to take for ossabot?
diana_coman: ah, there is the log-citing, hm.
asciilifeform: my bot is written such that only speaks when spoken to
asciilifeform: diana_coman: well why not it talk when given links to own log
diana_coman: it's meant to listen, not to talk, heh
diana_coman: I'm not sure it should talk in here
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i think it needs a green light from mp_en_viaje
diana_coman: ah, can't talk in here, good.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 08:31:43 mp_en_viaje: ~most commodity classes are more monetized than new cars, which is universally what the argentines do : they also make heaters that are worse heaters than scrap wire. and worse coputer cases than tree trunks and so on.