asciilifeform: relates.

asciilifeform: incidentally, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2015#1191327 << this thread fell through the cracks, i think ☝︎

asciilifeform: not martians, no.

asciilifeform: who else.

asciilifeform: (though it's been a while since i looked at the turdation's tree - perhaps they do ?)

asciilifeform: not the cert crud

asciilifeform: why is anyone using that thing again...?

asciilifeform: punkman: lulziez!

asciilifeform: lobbes: we don't even have a b-a restaurant yet.

asciilifeform: than straight intravenous injection from ntp into a machine with no clock to speak of

asciilifeform: but overall i'm much less allergic to the idea of letting ntp adjust a running clock by a percent now and then

asciilifeform: decimation: not afaik. probably best to assume the worst.

asciilifeform: incidentally, if anybody feels up to falling on this grenade with me, please speak up

asciilifeform: ?

asciilifeform: these clocks would still have to be ~set~, but it can be done en masse, once.

asciilifeform: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pcs-New-RTC-DS1302-Real-Time-Clock-Module-For-AVR-ARM-PIC-SMD-Arduino-Y5RP-/311396590299 << example

asciilifeform: can be attached to the gpio in pogo ☟︎

asciilifeform: i also learned last night that chinese rtc modules, complete with battery, are about fifty cents in quantity

asciilifeform: could probably do several hundred in a weekend, if they were sent to me disassembled

asciilifeform: (it also needs a capacitor or li battery on the power input to the rtc)

asciilifeform: i've also thought about personally retrofitting the pogos with the crystals

asciilifeform: hence sanity-check rather than reliance

asciilifeform: gotta think of a way to sanity-check it

asciilifeform: jurov: probably

asciilifeform: ntp, on other hand, is a pants-down unauthenticated plaintext (for reasons explained previously, this cannot really be helped)

asciilifeform: enemy is stuck pulling plugs.

asciilifeform: jurov: the particular example, 'gossip', ~is~ jam tomorrow, yes. but it is possible to run encrypted tunnels of various sorts even today.

asciilifeform: so in that sense it is 'usg institution' in exactly the way my house, and my earthly carcass, are

asciilifeform: once 'gossip' is running, the only thing enemy will be able to do is pull plugs

asciilifeform: since everybody seems to insist on doing mental gymnastics to come to peace with using ntp

asciilifeform: i am only dreaming up specifics because asked to

asciilifeform: i believe that it is wrong for a large network of bitcoin nodes to depend on a usg institution.

asciilifeform: than dread of a specific boojum

asciilifeform: jurov: gotta understand, my allergy to ntp is more of a 'reason from causes, not from purposes'-theorem application

asciilifeform: (today, that is)

asciilifeform: or for that matter, in the original

asciilifeform: decimation: i can't comment on what's in the other '641a's.

asciilifeform: jurov: idea is that no one will 'notice weird time', nodes will just silently drift off the network

asciilifeform: we launch the pogos, and suddenly 'ntp is obsolete, dontchaknow,' here is a new replacement by poettering, 85% consensus1111!!!1111!!! within weeks, plug pulled on ntp servers ☟︎

asciilifeform: i can envision other scenarios

asciilifeform: naturally, you don't

asciilifeform: it won't happen every day, naturally. just when 'national s333k000r1ty' requires a stinkbomb dropped on the network - to keep a certain tx from getting relayed, say

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194795 << feed diddled ntp to ~known public bitcoin nodes~. ☝︎

asciilifeform: iirc there were other 'postbox names' in there, amounting to the same idea

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194783 << 'quantuminsert' and 'ferretcannon', just off the top of my head (from the snowden papers) ☝︎

asciilifeform bbl

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194583 << would like to see this expanded if mircea_popescu has time. ☝︎

asciilifeform: famously attributed to stalin circa '37

asciilifeform: 'living's become better, living's become merrier'

asciilifeform: http://image1.thematicnews.com/uploads/topics/preview/00/01/24/91/a5825d35bb.jpg

asciilifeform: 'no there isn't'

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: that was before monsanto and winblowz-traktor

asciilifeform: l0l!

asciilifeform: where else? in pampas, to the pampas cats?

asciilifeform: at any rate, down in the log, i point out that it would be absolutely trivial to serve diddled ntp solely to known btc nodess.

asciilifeform: quite often 'creditcard machine ain't working today. but we dusted off this carbon paper and press...'

asciilifeform: btw this is not uncommon where i live

asciilifeform: ?

asciilifeform: esp on winblowz

asciilifeform: like all of fiatworld

asciilifeform: all of it is reparable because it customarily breaks every morning six times before breakfast

asciilifeform: merchant shop - fails every other day

asciilifeform: winblows - reboot as always

asciilifeform: it can be passed off as 'botched daylight savings' in my locale

asciilifeform: i'll bite. what else will perma-wedge if usg clock moves 2h into the past for a day ?

asciilifeform: hell, 'hootoo' would be it right now if we could sit down in 32m.

asciilifeform: at some point i ~will~ locate the pieces to make something like pogo en masse

asciilifeform: also 'never say never'

asciilifeform: deploy in places where pc cannot work - yes

asciilifeform: throw away, no

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha i know

asciilifeform: umm let's ~not~ tunnel through microshit ??

asciilifeform: lol, fat lot of good that does.

asciilifeform: solely on account of this

asciilifeform: i suspect that perhaps 1 in 5 pogos will actually run

asciilifeform: the most problematic aspect, possibly

asciilifeform: gotta have that external 8333

asciilifeform: decimation: no upnp in starbucks

asciilifeform: sorta like what aaron swartz went around doing before he was hanged

asciilifeform: is that you can stuff it in broom closet, camouflage with old bum rags, get on motorcycle and never see the place again.

asciilifeform: the ~only~ advantage pogo has over pc

asciilifeform head-desks

asciilifeform: that's where $20 pogo really shines

asciilifeform: ethernet jack in broom closet ?

asciilifeform: and what of cuckoldry ?

asciilifeform: i must confess that i'm not 100% clear on the primary mission. but did have the distinct impression that it involves making use of net jacks that don't have literate and attentive humans attached to them

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: is this such a difficult concept ?

asciilifeform: decimation: vibrations of atom don't come with indices. nor do sunrises.

asciilifeform: but 'so close' in his own mind.

asciilifeform: who, as far as we know, did not actually have a working electron cannon

asciilifeform: i described the 'death ray balance' envisioned by tesla.

asciilifeform: 'what death ray'

asciilifeform: 'if enemy comes, we will shoot him with death ray'

asciilifeform: we haven't invented the mechanism !

asciilifeform: how are they to agree ?

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194577 << if mircea_popescu has figured out how to 'reject usg time', i'm all ears. ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194574 << moved the clock. hence the clock thread. ☝︎

asciilifeform: but that the idea of turning one on inside a block of flats...