asciilifeform: i woke up and read the docz, almost fell out of bed:

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367965 << this is actually a mega-l0l - a virtually 100% gossipd WITH 100% NSA CRYPTO ☝︎

asciilifeform to bed.

asciilifeform: see my ancient idiocy, http://kyristor.com

asciilifeform: what would make sense is for folks plugged into a mircea_popescutron to get the requisite answer when they ask it

asciilifeform: as is the answer to arbitrary crapolade, e.g., whether A > ∀.

asciilifeform: arguably 'how to draw an alpha' is a a name-problem question

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366258 << thread ☝︎

asciilifeform: from this morning !

asciilifeform: but in point of fact this actually reduces to the naming problem !

asciilifeform: one which lets you programmatically specify an operation which yields A when given an ∀, is marginally saner

asciilifeform: fact is, a system which tries to pretend that it makes sense to ask what A + ∀ is equal to, or even whether A > ∀, makes no more sense than one which tries to define the mass of the colour purple.

asciilifeform: only a subset of which sanely applicable to characters

asciilifeform: phf: my point was to illustrate the notion of meaningfully different concepts of equality-predicate

asciilifeform: phf: apparently you don't greek enough...

asciilifeform: is quite certainly in lisp.

asciilifeform: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/f_eq.htm#eq vs http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/f_equal.htm#equal vs http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/f_eql.htm vs http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/f_bt_and.htm#bit-eqv vs http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/f_eq_sle.htm#EQ

asciilifeform: because life suxx etc

asciilifeform: two different objects can render to same glyph

asciilifeform: as in the mircea_popescu> because capital alpha is A. example,

asciilifeform: which is why we don't

asciilifeform: but mapping is not 1 to 1.

asciilifeform: if all you get is a Σ on paper - then, no

asciilifeform: you see no difference between this and a random piece of excreta ?

asciilifeform: because they are not the SAME sheet

asciilifeform: but not equal

asciilifeform: are eq

asciilifeform: on my desk, two sheets of paper inscribed with the word 'alas' -

asciilifeform: that i use every motherfuckin day?

asciilifeform: because these are useful notions?

asciilifeform: they are 'eq' but not 'equal'.

asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367736 << btw lisp world actually is equipped to answer this in a non-retarded way: ☝︎

asciilifeform: phf: quite likely!

asciilifeform: /dev/sad.

asciilifeform: simplicity.

asciilifeform: what happened to yoooooooneeex filoooosophy!111

asciilifeform: echo p.q.r.s > /dev/fuckyou

asciilifeform: i've always wanted a '/dev/banhammer'

asciilifeform: and we barfed over nss!11

asciilifeform: ick

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what do you have in yours, a shell callout to iptables ?!1

asciilifeform: ah iirc this is 'attempted connect'

asciilifeform: the latter

asciilifeform: on both boxes, no less

asciilifeform: connection from 186.137.7.31:48104 dropped (banned) << that banlist thing needs massage: why can same bugger come back 4x within the hour??!!

asciilifeform: so i can grasp.

asciilifeform: now all we need is some meta-lsd to inject straight into my eyeball

asciilifeform wonders if there are folks reading this on ascii terminals going 'wut'

asciilifeform: l0l!!1

asciilifeform: if one must have'em both.

asciilifeform: they oughta be separate chars in alphabet then

asciilifeform: and you would set fire to a machine that behaved otherwise!

asciilifeform: this is, again, consistent with sanity

asciilifeform: same.

asciilifeform: )

asciilifeform: (if you ask for uppercase(.......) for any .... that includes such a sign, what do you expect to see ?

asciilifeform: thing about it

asciilifeform: itself.

asciilifeform: unicode is an idiot ordering of EVERYTHING

asciilifeform: i don't see how.

asciilifeform: pick.

asciilifeform: either true or an error and the machine kicks you for asking

asciilifeform: at least for the chars a cultured man might use

asciilifeform: break the thing into its proper subatomics.

asciilifeform: because these are not meaningfully-toggleable properties of a character ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because buncha medieval bozos decided they like small/big letter

asciilifeform: indices make sense ~where defined~

asciilifeform: or an upper-case

asciilifeform: e.g., i can turn it into an aleph

asciilifeform: and is operable

asciilifeform: it has useful semantic structure

asciilifeform: (this is not a notation on any existing system, i invented it)

asciilifeform: zero

asciilifeform: what if i said that α ought to live as an s-expr equalling (low (greek 0)) ?

asciilifeform: from decades of habit

asciilifeform: see mircea_popescu you are arithmetizing in your head

asciilifeform: this is not implicit in the question, is it

asciilifeform: and how about ∀ ?

asciilifeform: or do i not get an α ?

asciilifeform: or not ?

asciilifeform: so is A > α ?

asciilifeform: was it mircea_popescu who had the article with the giant and his chair ?

asciilifeform: much less that it would shortly after, die.

asciilifeform: (early on, it was not clear that smbx would annihilate the rest)

asciilifeform: there were multiple licensees of the original mit machine

asciilifeform: because this was not quite it.

asciilifeform: (the entire process took place at all, as i gather, because foolishly smbx thought it could finesse the process)

asciilifeform: whose lisps didn't even run on a real graphical console

asciilifeform: this is sorta what happened. symbolics co. had to 'compromise' with the turd vendors

asciilifeform: representation!

asciilifeform: because oh noez, they get voicez!11111

asciilifeform: in a way that doesn't leave the crud exchanges simply going to a pit to die

asciilifeform: picture if satan lifted his magic wand, and, somehow, mpex and glbse (!) and havel0l, et al, had to ALL sit down and STANDARDIZE the stock exchange ...

asciilifeform: iirc he's findable

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why not ask him ?

asciilifeform: and failing to find it on one's first unix box.

asciilifeform: incidentally, was anybody else cruelly shocked as a kid when discovering that the 8th-bit upper 'ansi' character of msdos is NOT standardized ?

asciilifeform: and the latin christendom, clever ?

asciilifeform: ru alphabet moved plenty

asciilifeform: kept movin' till, when, 20th c?