162800+ entries in 0.047s
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of stuff in there that will necessarily result in a huge patch (the guy is stuck, willy-nilly, doing a lot of
mircea_popescu: punkman the rotating log fix separate from the rest, for one thing.
mircea_popescu: you two made me google that damned thing. seriously, a mouse ?
mircea_popescu: . i'm with ben_v (and apparently ascii too) in that it's really best practice to make patches small and issue-focused. it's not just a matter of review, it's to ease future rebasing and so on. as antidesign it may seem to you personally on the basis of workflow, this is one of those things where individual has to take a small step back to allow society altogether to exist.
mircea_popescu: . i'm with punkman in that if you're going to prefix in that much detail, there's going to have to be some sort of filtering scheme. i'm not with him that flags are the solution, it just seems an ad-hoc hack unix did that got carried forward. i'm still partial to my multi-logfiles idea, fwiw. altogether a lot more thought must be put into "how to structure" this, but sadly it depends on a fully specified bitcoin, so it
mircea_popescu: just, in a metaprogramming sense that did not exist prior to V putting light on the issue.
mircea_popescu: so in full terms, i would say that again, including both in the same patch is both premature optimization and a kludge.
mircea_popescu: yes but we for very good reason do not want multi-issue patches.
mircea_popescu: nothing of course prevents you from taking z and rebasing it as a first level node off x.
mircea_popescu: because people didn't make both y and z first level nodes of x, people are indicating that whether you know why or not, you need a->a' for b->b'.
mircea_popescu: phf nothing in the physical situation as you describe it indicates that. nevertheless, the implicit meaning in how the topo sort owrks is that you need a to a' for b to b' to be meaningful. this could be because one is .h and the other .cpp, fopr instance, or becauise other stuff is coming later or for any other reason
mircea_popescu: im sorry, i mean : if you didn't need y, then y should have been z'.
mircea_popescu: phf in the example you gave the implication is you NEED z.
mircea_popescu: that came in a few different flavours historically, and amusingly all unaware of their communion and unadressing it.
mircea_popescu: (or even WHETHER it actually works. hence all the - equally unexamined and inept - prb derpage about "blessed" chains)
mircea_popescu: it DOES work for bitcoin (in blockchain terms it's "longest chain"), but altogether it's not clear WHY it works
mircea_popescu: the shortest path thing is not only premature optimization but also a very mangled sort of heuristic.
mircea_popescu: and so... nobody could have foreseen all the way to chad.
mircea_popescu: you can't switch back. once you've decided to take the hardwood floor and light your stove with it, you can't then decide to take stove ash and make a floor.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ironically, consider the historical aspect. vc's strategic mistake to NOT submit early and well ensured that they don't have a voice at the one time it'd have mattered. now they're getting locked out of bitcoin, which means computing, and what'll mit do, switch back to scheme because THAT is what junior devs will need to get jobs ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> this will have to be dealt with << doesn't seem terribly hard.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying that the nignog "egyptians" abolishing the pyramids is "something they created"
mircea_popescu: (different field, but same principle - you to this day can't beat literature as read at oxford cca 1880ish, just like you can't really beat it from mit cca 1960. the latter branch is obvious here, but the former'd be just as obvious in a literature-powered ba)
mircea_popescu: just like oxford used to matter at some point in its history.
mircea_popescu: mit used to be a very respectable institution, merely a few decades ago.
mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation << quite this, tho we might have to get there in steps.
mircea_popescu: you do a miserable job of comments, btw. the thing with "only four bit state" has its disadvantages.
mircea_popescu: so at the least a hook for human debugging to save us from cold equationism IS provided.
mircea_popescu: this way the human gardener can review and arbitrate the matter and i (at least hopefully) won't get negrated for it breaking shit.
mircea_popescu: now, one obvious solution (wasn't obvious to me at the time what it was a solution to) is to INCLUDE COMMENTS in the patches, like i did with my only signed patch i didn't really intended as part of a final pressing
mircea_popescu: so have i. which is what makes the conicidence interesting.
mircea_popescu: (for one thing : if IT could find the right ones, add that to gossipd and we have essentially built passive autonomous system software, ie, the evil ai.)
mircea_popescu: or to put it in different terms : currently the V is equivalent to a version of bitcoin where YOU are responsible for downloading blocks. it WILL verify them and form a chain,
mircea_popescu: a) the presser might disagree and b) the V doesn't really distinguish
mircea_popescu: approach thematter from the other, practical side, maybe it's easier that way. so i made a patch that did X, then i made a patch that did X'. i consider X' to be > X.
mircea_popescu: (and we'll likely end up stuck in THIS sort of mud pits a lot more than i nthe "obvious" ones everyone thinks about)
mircea_popescu: merely inquiring what "longest chan" ACTUALLY MEANS is a major point of actually defining bitcoin\
mircea_popescu: the reason i question all this is because suddenly a possibility formed in my head, whereby v could have an equivalent of "longest chain". bitcoin does not follow THAT heuristic idly. but it must be said that a) it's a poorly defined heuristic and b) there are reasons.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag mod6 if you wish to consider a general problem : what is the ~correct~ thing to do for vtron when it encounters two validly signed patches doing the same thing ?
mircea_popescu: i'd rather stop people in the street and ask them to make my women babies than reference whatever package maintained by nowot rando.
mircea_popescu: actually that's the first time someone brought a cogent, well thought out objection to the classic "programmers wanna play and so ruin productivity spending moe time on tools than the tools save" thing
☟︎ mircea_popescu: wanna bet you spent more time fucking around with the auto thereof than it saved you ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you know automation of it is actually an unsolvable problem, do you ?
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is emacs going to fill in with irc names.
mircea_popescu: me types three letters in editor, hits tabs a few times, is very confused when the required fill-in doesn't occur.
mircea_popescu: if anyone recalls that joke about how mathematician is the only man who tells mistress he's with wife, tells wife he's with mistress, goes to woods with pen and paper to unwind...
mircea_popescu: hey mod6 how would you rate working with b-a vs working with job people ? are we just as enervating ye t?
mircea_popescu: no dawg, im not done wioth the logs. then reading the #eulora logs which by now are even longer.
mircea_popescu: i'm quickly building a reputation for a wrecker of trb aren't i !
mircea_popescu: did the entire week long circuitous path start with me bitching / trying to improve on it ?