16500+ entries in 0.008s
mircea_popescu: problem with smart, educated, english-speaking kids is
that
they'll believe anything.
mircea_popescu: when you know, people still inexplicably imagined
they could help
mircea_popescu: anyway, back
to it : html was written by people who had not even a cursory familiarity with what resource location might even mean. consequently,
there is no actual way
to locate subsets within resources, even if continuous.
the only available primitives are, either spurious linefeed, or else partial selects.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 05:31:35 diana_coman: (and
them mircea_popescu will write a mandatory-reading
thread of more
than 500 lines and my log-selection via log-raw will fail).
mircea_popescu: except of course all
the old farts are completely moroning hellspawn a la jwz, rms, ers, etcetera
mircea_popescu: the sadness about
this sorta job is
that it's eminently not noobworthy.
mircea_popescu: and if it doesn't, i daresay
the problem's not your slaves.
mircea_popescu: what you ~could~ do for your usecase, usefully, would be
to add a, say, ?a=alf switch, such
that when a=alf, every paragraph gets a chapter anchor and every sentence
therein gets a sentence anchor, and
then alfblog.org/?a=alf#137:37
takes one directly
to paragraph 137 verse 37
mircea_popescu: then no select is even needed, like
the bible, #168:35 goes directly
there
mircea_popescu: moreover, if
that's all you want, you could just add per-para anchors with some
tiny
tweaking of
the mp-wp
mircea_popescu: i dun imagine paragraph-select is how people expect
to use it.
mircea_popescu: the problem here is
that select behaviour is social, and implementing a weird select for your blog is likely
to cost more in
that
than in provides in whatever it provides
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, if you select whole paragraphs and
them only, you can get away with div at very minor cost (ie,
there may be slight diff between "normal" para and selected on some browsers)
mircea_popescu: the
thought manifestly never fucking occured
to
the muppets, "chief among
the jobs of any uniform resource locator is
to expose a manner
to reference arbitrary subsets of
the resource once located ; at
the very least ONE CONTINUOUS SUBSET)
mircea_popescu: yes. "a one cell
table" is just a clunkier div. and
the problem with div (
instead of span) is
that it... breaks
the line where it starts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no,
there's no way
to do it with any number of
tags.
the problem is exactly as described : spans
that can span any subset of
the characters insert a spurious line feed ; spans
that do not insert spurious line feed can not span any subset of
the characters but only some.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 11:38:35 asciilifeform: when humans write responses
to articles,
typically
the section being addressed goes ~above~
the reply. why not log renderer follow same form ?
mircea_popescu: there's no "clean span".
there's either span-borken-thus or span-borken-that.
mircea_popescu: but
the problem's of primitives not wrappers ; nobody on
the fucking w3c commission ever had any actual usecases in mind. just shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, font doesn't do what you
think (not addressable) ;
table is clunkier div. can do either of course, up
to you.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 08:29:31 mircea_popescu:
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938084 << imo
this sounds like a good idea in
theory, but is not a good idea in practice.
the reason for
the difference is
that
the links as we use
them now are ~fixed length~ AND ~fixed format~, something
the quotes can never be.
they are BETTEr like
this
than like
that because
the fix-* is
the more important attirbute in
thsi context.
mircea_popescu: (subsidiarily, i also want
to select inside a logline maybe
twice aweek, which is hundred of cases by now)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 04:44:35 mircea_popescu: ie, if "selection doesn't work for me" "why not ?" "because what i want
to select recurs", give some
thought whether indeed "selection is broken and should be fixed". WHY do you want
to select something
THAT RECURS, and recurs so much it actually doesn't allow you
to extend
the context slightly, one character at a
time, resolving your problem ?
mircea_popescu: i am pretty sure nobody here ever
thought before
to ~edit~
their irclogs for ~any reason~.
mircea_popescu: and, my reasoning goes, since im doing
this ANYWAY, might as well have a public, published version.
mircea_popescu: the situation where
there's both unchanging loggers and syncing loggers is in fact more stable wrt
that sort of challenge.
mircea_popescu: consider
the complexities involved also. what if
there's a serious dispute re log ? what do we all do, we each fall back on whatever private irclogs we kept, eys ? and conceivably even have a party split, x-y-z see Q, k-l-n see P.
mircea_popescu: that it is. and i would be concerned if
there was no synced logger,
too.
mircea_popescu: or
to put it another way : a logger confronts
the dilemma if whether
to sync with history or with other loggers. i don't believe
there's need for a rule, it can stand as such.
mircea_popescu: not
that i'm against sync-able loggers. but i don't believe all loggers MUST be
thusly.
mircea_popescu: the owner doesn't have
to specify WHO is his lordship, because
the bot just looks at who he rated 9.
mircea_popescu: i kept dithering back and forth in here because i stupidly never sat down
to draw
this all out properly and review history etc. but now i have, and
that's
the story.
mircea_popescu: in order for
this system
to retain its utility
throughout
the board, i believe
the whole array should be offered
to castle owners.
thus for deedbot
to manage voicing in a castle
the owner would have
to specify
the castle name, what x value he wants, whether lobe 2 is on and if so what
threshold y
to be used.
mircea_popescu: 1 must be on for
there
to be a voice model in
the first place. #trilema was
traditionally 1 on, 2 on, x = 0, y = 0. with
this castle update #trilema is moving
to 1 on, 2 off, x = 1, y = undefined.
mircea_popescu: there's
two lobes
to qualify for voice in a castle : EITHER 1.(rating above x by
the castle owner) OR 2.(sum rating over y by his lordship as he defines it.)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 00:54:44 asciilifeform: it's possible
that mircea_popescu intends his item
to be standalone, rather
than pilot plant for all 'canonical' loggers.
then dun matter so much whether calendar etc.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 00:42:50 asciilifeform: asciilifeform, for instance, likes
to
think
that his hands grow from shoulders, and not from arse, and still evidently produced
these.
mircea_popescu: i dunno
that i'd want
this ; but
the experimentally inclined may find it interesting
to explore
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 00:30:46 asciilifeform: can be anyffin, even line count. so long as it can be mechanically derived from
the actual lines, rather
than clocks.
mircea_popescu:
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-26#1938151 <<
there is such a
thing implemented, specifically in
the auctionbot spec for #eulora (say your line on
the hour but only if
there's been chatter since last saying). something very similar can also work here, "a new day starts when
there's been silence for x
time"). while clocks drift,
they don't also diverge, not on
the sort of scales here contemplated.
mircea_popescu: if i make
the log say X on my blog,
that's my fucking priviledge, it exists on my authority.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 00:14:20 asciilifeform: you gotta break
the pages ~somehow~. q is how. if you do it by 'day', you end up stepping on same mine.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 00:13:24 lobbes: re:
two or more mp-wp loggers agreeing with each other; I'm not sure
they would ever need
to agree with each other in
terms of links... IF not indexing. In other words, each instance of a mp-wp logger and its output becomes indistinguishable from any other blog post on said blog. (in other words, if you don't care
to sync, or don't care if "missing" lines,
then not an issue)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-26 00:12:38 asciilifeform: but if you calendarize
the pregenned-pages
thing, you end up baking
the 'when does day start' idiocy right into
the db. where cannot even be easily later fixed...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 23:49:18 lobbes: in
the mircea_popescuine logger,
though, all links will use
the server-side-selectory-style. By definition
those links will never agree with
the
traditional loggers since
the latter can't span arbitrary lines /
text
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 23:29:24 asciilifeform: nor is
there likely ever gonna be any such agreement. use of reich
time gotta be made 100% decorative, or
to go away entirely.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in local lulz : "what was
that much better post office here called ?" "you mean prioripost ?" "that's right, apriori post!" "no, no, just prioripost.
though... damn..."
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 23:18:21 asciilifeform: so
things could, i suppose, be worse, era1 could be in aramaic!111
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 23:15:57 asciilifeform: imho all of
this is a++ illustration of how even in very small, conceptually (vs. e.g. ye olde c/gcc/linux orchestra) system, 'legacy' retardation gets firmly baked in and very difficult
to entirely remove.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 23:12:08 asciilifeform: ... rapidly
this becomes a headache, re historic logs where 1e6
times people cited specifically bot echoes
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-25 23:01:58 asciilifeform: if finally
throwing out
the ancient kakobreklic format for logger display, wai not go full
throttle.