log☇︎
2100+ entries in 0.019s
diana_coman: by now I have stuff to write up, down and every other way really.
mp_en_viaje: you should probably write this up ; i'd like to reproduce for one thing and no, i never had nano crash yet.
diana_coman: it's the first time I manage to crash nano like this but I suppose it won't be the last time.
diana_coman: opened up a vpatch from a dir eg nano -wF patches/some.vpatch and then from inside attempted to open another vpatch that was however in dir "a" - apparently it crashes; I did not yet spend more time to find out exactly why/where/how.
diana_coman: eh, let me hereby inform the forum that in my current investigations of v-tronicity, I have managed therefore to crash (repeatedly!) the nano editor! with SIGFPE, arithmetic exception!
mp_en_viaje: lotta windows users are like that, most of their keyboard usage is repetitive pressings on the same key. which is i suppose how people even came up with the "hey, make the screen a single button and be done with it" next node of "improvement"
mp_en_viaje: it isn't a huge problem, which is why it wasn't particularly resolved, then. or i guess now. or ever be
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I don't know re that as such; ie I don't mind it either way, whether \t or space, I don't see it as a huge problem.
diana_coman: myeah; honestly, reviewing the whole V-stuff, the part that bugs me most turns around exactly this sort of thing: the core idea as I see it was that "code is text" and therefore it should be discussed and read and undersigned and referenced and all that intertextuality and context and all; in practice there are the vtools providing some of the mechanics, there's a spread of discussions going every which way and otherwise there's rather ...
mp_en_viaje: i expect the discussion still stands now as then : you can either do the sane thing or the dumb thing ; doing the sane thing's burdened by the anal child argument that indeed a lot of dumbasses have already been permitted to shit into the discussion
mp_en_viaje: at which point i gave up that line.
mp_en_viaje: i was firmly on the \t ; asciilifeform did not like it, wanted to do the dumb thing. ~nobody else said much on the topic, and he quashed discussion with "who's gonna fix all the dumb code already written by all the other dumb people"
diana_coman: some people space code with \t precisely in the idea that you can set it to whatever you want it to be; others with spaces; and looking back through those discussions it seems to go one way and then the other and overall I have no idea if there was some conclusion to this or it remained up to each vpatch author or whatevers.
mp_en_viaje: forced-size tabs are stupid, because maybe i want the tab displayed as eight, or maybe i want mine displayed as two. it's not something that should be fixed at write-time, much like paragraph flow is to be decided when the paragrap
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i still believe
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-30 12:34:56 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: trouble is that it's *not* development that is painful-er, not at all; it's...publishing that is painfuller and I doubt that has any merits.
diana_coman: as I ended up doing a long log-crawl on v-matters because it's still bugging me, I found several discussions on spaces vs tabs but overall I can't tell what the current conclusion is on this: does anyone know?
mp_en_viaje: i know some rural dumb cunts very much like the us. nobody outspends them on kerngknekjvsdfks.
mp_en_viaje: i thought for a moment they did that artificial nacre thing
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-07#1954463 << ahaha beautiful. how was i t?
spyked: anyway, I'ma sit on this thread for a while, will focus on getting uefi disentangled for now
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 06:33:41 spyked: also otoh, I'm not entirely sure custom biosen/chips are the way to go, since they require a fair amount of reverse engineering, which is usually a massive time sink. it'd certainly be an interesting research project, but it's not something I'd make the delivery of tmsr-os depend on.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 13:04:11 dorion_road: a V-ified cooreboot will provide more leverage in increasing hardware coverage. if a patron wants to sponsor the owner (or anyone else from his WoT) to expand the hardware coverage, having it V-ified forms a good foundation as I see it.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954435 <-- I'm not convinced it will, tbh. atm buying an existing corebootable board is a much cheaper alternative (for gpg at least) than supporting a new one, on account of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954371 ; might work on the long term when the supplies for e.g. x60 will be exhausted, but even then, trying to make sense of closed t
lobbes: My root issue is really that I haven't been optimizing for the best case in general. Completely separate from that is the issue of my general computer illiteracy. Both of these I can work to cure via diving into ebuilds, so I'll hold steady on this course I reckon
lobbes: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954439 << this is true. I've given it some reflection, and I'm going to go ahead and commit to diving into the ebuilds.
dorion_road: while I understand you wanted to the logging project to go smoother, but you were also picking up a new langauge for the job.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 22:49:59 lobbes: and even then, it has always been 'soft computering' like reporting, sql queries, excel jockying, etc. The only programming language I really know is python (and that I've only ever used here in tmsr)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 22:32:39 lobbes: though tbh, this whole experience makes me think that maybe computers just ain't my thing. Perhaps I ought to think about BingoBoingo's writing for Qntra course a little more instead of this TMSR OS project
dorion_road: am I making sense or missing any important points ?
dorion_road: a V-ified cooreboot will provide more leverage in increasing hardware coverage. if a patron wants to sponsor the owner (or anyone else from his WoT) to expand the hardware coverage, having it V-ified forms a good foundation as I see it.
dorion_road: In the immediate term, Corebootable machines are part of the consulting package jfw and I are offering clients.
dorion_road: If a full process insurance business can be derived from tmsr.os in the longer term, I'd expect the bios to be included (assuming bios as it's now referred is part of the end process).
dorion_road: I'm sure many people here are doing that as well, these logs are where I first learned about it, afterall.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 05:20:08 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954385 <-- so the idea here is that whoever wants to tmsrize their box can also get help replacing their heathen bios/firmware with a V-ified coreboot? this is the business proposition that I'm seeing atm.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954419 << there are a couple layers to my thinking. the idea started from the basis that I'm compiling and installing the bios on whatever hardware I'm using using for a trb node, tmsr-pgp, etc.
dorion_road: In my brush up of, now wtf again is SMM ? this morning, I referred to an old article by robert. r. collins on the topic. He's new to me, but CV looks impressive, anyone here come across him ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 05:17:15 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954378 <-- it was part of a study on (or rather using) qemu, to figure out how whatever software runs in SMM interacts with the OS at boot/run-time. unfortunately it got piled under a bunch of other work and I never got it published.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 05:14:46 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954376 <-- tyvm dorion_road! yup, I'll add uefi study to saturday's plan, the first step I have in mind is providing some context/rationale and making an estimate of how much the study and mapping process is going to take.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954385 <-- so the idea here is that whoever wants to tmsrize their box can also get help replacing their heathen bios/firmware with a V-ified coreboot? this is the business proposition that I'm seeing atm.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954378 <-- it was part of a study on (or rather using) qemu, to figure out how whatever software runs in SMM interacts with the OS at boot/run-time. unfortunately it got piled under a bunch of other work and I never got it published.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 11:45:25 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954366 << thank you for the update, sorry to hear you're under the weather. I hope you're able to rest up and recover. I look forward to the discussion!
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954376 <-- tyvm dorion_road! yup, I'll add uefi study to saturday's plan, the first step I have in mind is providing some context/rationale and making an estimate of how much the study and mapping process is going to take.
mircea_popescu: "I orignally listed CentOS as being vulnerable
mircea_popescu: i must know, at the end of its run a) that it optimally used the bytespace by wringing out periodicity in the input ; b) that only the designated keys can ever get the input back out and c) that a specific set of occurences will not harm the contents. such as "two consecutive lost bytes once ; AND six independent lost bytes". or w/e it is. set percentually or w/e.
dorion_road: I haven't developed it very far past what's in those articles and what we've done to develop JWRD, but seems like there is a medium to long term profit center to establish.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 06:33:41 spyked: also otoh, I'm not entirely sure custom biosen/chips are the way to go, since they require a fair amount of reverse engineering, which is usually a massive time sink. it'd certainly be an interesting research project, but it's not something I'd make the delivery of tmsr-os depend on.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954371 << I agree reversing chips is not a dependency of tmsr-os. My thought process there is it's an optional package.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 06:29:20 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-03#1954183 <-- ftr, I'm not especially familiar with coreboot, though I've swimmed for a while in the SeaBIOS code a couple of years ago. but otoh the uefi 1/2 cleavage is worth studying and documenting in detail and I'll take that up if you think it's a priority.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 05:49:41 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-02#1954056 <-- apologies for the radio silence. I've been down with a nasty stomach flu the last few days. I'll catch up with the discussion in the next coupla days and I'll give my take on bios/bootloader ownership
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954366 << thank you for the update, sorry to hear you're under the weather. I hope you're able to rest up and recover. I look forward to the discussion!
spyked: also otoh, I'm not entirely sure custom biosen/chips are the way to go, since they require a fair amount of reverse engineering, which is usually a massive time sink. it'd certainly be an interesting research project, but it's not something I'd make the delivery of tmsr-os depend on.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-03#1954183 <-- ftr, I'm not especially familiar with coreboot, though I've swimmed for a while in the SeaBIOS code a couple of years ago. but otoh the uefi 1/2 cleavage is worth studying and documenting in detail and I'll take that up if you think it's a priority.
spyked: in related news, my november review/december plan was also delayed because of that, I'll have it published on saturday, along with my notes on current tmsr-os status
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-02 18:36:12 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953812 << thanks for the background spyked. I agree we're at the phase of figuring out what is really needed.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-02#1954056 <-- apologies for the radio silence. I've been down with a nasty stomach flu the last few days. I'll catch up with the discussion in the next coupla days and I'll give my take on bios/bootloader ownership
lobbes: true. I'm gonna take some time to absorb that trilema
mircea_popescu: well how the hell do i know what you can change
lobbes: hm is this something I can change, though? Or am I doomed here
mircea_popescu: i dunno this has anything to do with computers per se, or in other words even if you decide you want to write, or make pottery, or run an isp or whatever the fuck else, you'll just meet the same bugaboos in different skirts.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to belabour the point : the difference between us, dictated by experience and high level understanding as it may be, nevertheless comes in simple droplets. where i choose to let sql handle its own date format and use proper numeric notation for time, you attempt to convey string dates across boundries. it's [http://trilema.com/2015/the-downtrodden-are-downtrodden-for-a-reason-step-on-their-faces/?b=Old%20age&e=trea
mircea_popescu: not even a bad idea, i'd say it's the core that carried the http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2018-12-04#1878244 thing
lobbes: I believe
lobbes: well I'm glad you think that of sql; I've never known if I could count it as a 'programming' language
lobbes: that may be part of it haha. The more I do learn, the more I realize that I don't like it enough to ~want~ to be in front of a computer all day
mircea_popescu: from what i've seen, most people decide they don't really like computers once they get to know them at all.
lobbes: and even then, it has always been 'soft computering' like reporting, sql queries, excel jockying, etc. The only programming language I really know is python (and that I've only ever used here in tmsr)
lobbes: I mean, I make my living doing it in Incan lands, sure. But the bar is much lower in those lands
mircea_popescu: i thought computering was your chosen profession ?
lobbes: idk, I've got some thinking to do
lobbes: though tbh, this whole experience makes me think that maybe computers just ain't my thing. Perhaps I ought to think about BingoBoingo's writing for Qntra course a little more instead of this TMSR OS project
lobbes: mircea_popescu: it is reasonable. fwiw I'll have it ready for when you are
lobbes: I'll keep combing it for bugs in the meantime, what can you do. Gives me time to make sure there will be no issues on prod server either I suppose
lobbes: mircea_popescu: I hear you on that. Welp, I failed this one
mircea_popescu: i'll be back in settled circumstances willing and able to do such things sometime early next year.
mircea_popescu: lobbes, no but think about it, even if i add the dump now, it'll be 20+ hours until it ~completes~. i'd like to you know, have more than a day after that if a problem crops up. it's just not feasible anymoar.
lobbes: otherwise, for the foreseeable future I will be available whenever you are to look at this (save for the last week of December)
lobbes: mircea_popescu: well, what are you looking at for hours left? I can try and get this to you in the next say 5 hours
mircea_popescu: so im guessing having failed to make it run in this window we'll look at it again when i'm back ?
mircea_popescu: ftr, today's the 5th, just started ; and it's also the absolute last day i can possibly receive this thing. after that, ima be on the road for a while.
lobbes: weird huh. Possibly I was just implementing it wrong; I haven't looked too much into it tbh. Though I did find a workaround (instead of "<" operator, simply a "<>". I ultimately just need to tell if the days have changed from one line to the next, so that works); re-running my archives into my testblog now. Then I'll be going through with a veeeyyry fine toothed comb
lobbes: well I found the source of the conflated months weird. For whatever reason, the date compare for python fails when it is comparing formatted dates across months... i.e. "31 Mar 2016 < 01 Apr 2016" evaluates to ~false~, yet "30 Mar 2016 < 31 Mar 2016" evaluates to true like it should
mircea_popescu: here's to hoping he shows up, im bored enough i'm here going through trilema logs and shit
deedbot: 2019/12/04 06:03:55 <lobbes> mircea_popescu: seeing as these were fence post errors, I'm going to get some sleep and cut this again with a fresh head. I'll get that dump to you tomorrow (with just the fix to the months)
mircea_popescu: i suppose it tries to put an a href inside an a href huh.
BingoBoingo: Down here I've seen more of the latter. Then again "porch piracy" is not a concern here while it's endemic in old country.
hanbot: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954294 << eh it's ~always the "civilized" folks doing the stupidity-via-disrespect; i had a camera shipped to cr a while back amidst worries the locals would fuck it somehow, but it was the US side that stole it. the other half of the snailmail racket just delivers stupidity-via-formalisation, almost a kind of too much respect for the items in question, zero respect for the agents involved.
diana_coman: well, tbh I saw way worse from others ie not-packing-at-all, literally left as an overflowing mess; it's still funny though, certainly.
diana_coman: they half-heartedly shove it all back in again ie they didn't steal anything but didn't really pack it either; one of the drive bays' clamp was sticking out of the box even; I took some pics for the lolz but not sure when/if I get around to publish them.
lobbes: mircea_popescu: seeing as these were fence post errors, I'm going to get some sleep and cut this again with a fresh head. I'll get that dump to you tomorrow (with just the fix to the months)
lobbes: I would also hate that, no need to worry
mircea_popescu: i would FUCKING HATE IT if this is what i do for the coming years, find and fix lobbeslog bugs.
mircea_popescu: aite, im stopping this. restate your thing properly! by which i mean, fix this one thing ; don't fix the rest of the issues, i've as you've seen meanwhile written bash around it.
lobbes: goddamn it. yes those fencing errors. I'll need to keep a better eye on that going forward
lobbes: mircea_popescu: oh ffs, I think I did
ossabot: Logged on 2016-04-02 00:26:08 deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] Count me as thick, I dun see the connection. - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/count-me-as-thick-i-dun-see-the-connection/
mircea_popescu: lobbes, i think it's good now, finally!
mircea_popescu: i suspect there might be a further issue with date formats there tho.
lobbes: aa I see.
mircea_popescu: what i ~meant~ was, by-reference-to-bash-script published, "take ~TIMECNT~ to be so and so".