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mp_en_viaje: i dunno, to me he seems just a figurehead / sacrificial goat of a bunch ofretards looking for the main switch
asciilifeform: why maintained the cosmetic front, still afaik debated by archaeologists.
asciilifeform: mno, that'd be clitler's battallion, rather than pugachev
mp_en_viaje: "dude... you think the world is like your basement ?" "yes" "it won't do anything." "NO IT MUST"
mp_en_viaje: the largest will consist of pugachev's men : "our programme is to go find where the main switch is, and flip it."
asciilifeform follows along, this is traditional picture...
mp_en_viaje: at this juncture, there will be various "self-defense" "armies" "organized" across the realm.
mp_en_viaje: now, suppose at this time word comes from on high that ... sorry... that's it. we don't know how to turn it back on.
mp_en_viaje: suppose tomorrow the power turns off. that's it, just, no more grid.
asciilifeform prepares to take
mp_en_viaje: let's take a mental experiment for a moment.
asciilifeform: to same thing as chingis han 'to what', 'see their women driven before me, hear the lamentations...'
mp_en_viaje: see ? that's where it classifies in my head. "to do as before" "dude... they're not doing '''as before''' not cuz they don't wanna, the port is sanded"
asciilifeform: imho the operative diff is where zev/muntzer/huss/etc revolt with 'and manna will fall from heaven' ; whereas pugachev et al were straight cases of 'burn old moribund aristocrats and install selves in place'
asciilifeform: i recall this 1
mp_en_viaje: in my read, the pretender "army" / peasant horde was a #metoo movement. they were the idiots.
mp_en_viaje: i suspect you might be confusing the polarities.
asciilifeform: ( then famine and suddenly you have a 800k man pugachev army 'outta nowhere!111' )
mp_en_viaje: there's even a trilema piece re this i'm kinda too lazy to dig out
asciilifeform: at whatever time some % of farmer 'know where out is' , but while the turnippin's good , sit put
mp_en_viaje: of course the asswipe then disavows it. THEN disavows it. and even pretends like the then is "instantly". but it ain't fucking isntantly, there's a space. first he lies, then he disavows.
asciilifeform suspects that mp_en_viaje is right re 'fixed %' tho. but to run w/ the analogy, the radon does stay in the ground until you dig to the bedrock, so will in effect vary
mp_en_viaje: same thing.
mp_en_viaje: no, that's it. "turnipping doesn't work BUT I CHOOSE TO ANYWAY. BECAUSE IT MUST. BECAUSE I SAY SO. BECAUSE I AM GOD"
mp_en_viaje: he ~HAD~ to. because how the fuck not, she's right there and she forgot her clothes.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: seems to me that typical 'peasant delusion' is ~opposite~ , 'choice wat choice, i only know how to turnip'
asciilifeform: 'kulak' story is moar usually 'hey the derps keep showing up to borrow money, what, i shouldn't , why exactly? they wanna buy me a 5th horse, why not let'em'
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile the remainder 98% sits there herpy-derping about http://trilema.com/2014/agency-and-other-notes/
mp_en_viaje: and every single kulak doesn't tell the same story, of "what choice did i have".
mp_en_viaje: every single fucking brigand wil ltell the same story, of how he ~had to~.
mp_en_viaje: and why permitting him to live his delusion is so deeply antisocial.
mp_en_viaje: yet the delusion of choice is what makes the pleb.
asciilifeform: 'thermodynamics proposes, kinetics disposes'(tm)(r), 'choice' aint the operative item
mp_en_viaje: which is what makes in the end the difference : out of the cuck-mediated cuntspawn, some minotity sheds the "choice" delusion.
mp_en_viaje: the epitomic "kulak" is, eminently, http://trilema.com/2015/the-pawnbroker/ ; his monologue tells it all. eminently absent from there, any delusion of "choice"
asciilifeform suspects that 'there is no magick' and all of these followed standard predator-prey equilibriae -- but not expert.
mp_en_viaje: none of these, notably, followed some kinda choice.
asciilifeform: for 'lively' son of peasant, as i understand 2 'radiodecay' paths, 1 to brigand, 1 to 'kulak' (of whom, seems , was also 'stable %' historically)
mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2016/honor-societies-vs-respect-societies-or-how-the-disaster-of-commons-sunk-the-western-world/ hides it, because when it's cheaper to make a thing than to steal the thing nobody can be arsed. but a thing hidden's not a thing disappeared.
asciilifeform: but i think i see what mp_en_viaje meant
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: again this only in re ru planet, but there was measurable 'leakage' from 'pleb' to 'highwayman' , proportionate to how screamingly retarded was the crown at given time
mp_en_viaje: imo the distinction's very vividly made in a clockwork orange. give brigand nude princess, give farm cuck nude princess. one of the cases will result in pregnant princess.
mp_en_viaje: which is my point -- there are two distinct and perfectly distinguishable populations. the plebs aren't the highwaymen.
asciilifeform: not fulltime farmer, anyway. ( viking also 'part time farmer' similarly )
asciilifeform: on orc side there was attempt to institutionalize, 'ok you can be brigand right-there, on turk border' i.e. cossac
mp_en_viaje: these were ~never the same ones.
asciilifeform: for completeness, 'what did they then do' wasn't always 'eh same thing as grandfather, try to pull turnips from mud', but sometimes instead brigandage
mp_en_viaje: the whole idea was that livestock being worthless, moving it across the land was just a waste of fuel, so don't get the indiana livestock working on your farm in alabama.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: similarly to alabama, i.e. not far. cuz it wasn't as if they escaped on motorcycles , ha
mp_en_viaje: "on the manor over the hill" "wow. and what were they doing there ?" "the same thing as here" "holy shit shocking"
mp_en_viaje: sure. and where did they catch them ?
mp_en_viaje: wtf, who makes rules to cockroaches. the rules rule the lords wth.
asciilifeform: i dunno re e.g. germanies, but in ru there were catchers a la alabama etc
mp_en_viaje: that ~another lord~ was not alloed to take thenm ~as plebs~.
asciilifeform: what then means 'were bound to the soil'
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, what the fuck konzentrabullshit, nobody ever gave a shit.
mp_en_viaje: "well, whether it must or it mustn't is irrelevant" "down with the king!"
asciilifeform: 'go discovering x' req's breaking outta the konzentrationslager neh
mp_en_viaje: fucking hell, go fucking discovering america. raise rabbits. what the fuck, "what we always did doesnt work" "do something else" "no, we just want to do what we always did" "but it doesn't work" "it must!"
mp_en_viaje: idiot, given the choice between "fix some idiocy inside" and "fuck up some shit outside", ALWAYS goes for door #2.
asciilifeform: i dunno that d00d who picks up a spear and decides 'go out with a bang' when starving, is necessarily 'idiot'
mp_en_viaje: "disgruntled" my foot. wilfully misrepresenting themselves.
mp_en_viaje: not serfdom is wicked. human nature is wicked, in that the converse statement of d-k problem is the one you gave above :
mp_en_viaje: yes, so wicked is the nature of cunt byproducts, every stupidity instantly vacuums up oodlebunches of lychen
asciilifeform: iirc in west europistan landsknecht did brisk biz being called in to clean these up
asciilifeform: the ru variant seems a++ until remember that erry rebellion (pugachev's being only the most expensive to kill, hence prominently remembered) insta-vacuumed up massive army of disgruntled meat robot
mp_en_viaje: possibly the most important human contribution to understanding of human affairs : the first, and the most important possible law is the one that interdicts valuation of human life. not in the sense of it being priceless, but in the sense of it being worthless.
mp_en_viaje: otherwise idiots' first on the list of idiocies they like to imaginarily enact, "value in human life"
mp_en_viaje: ie, "not sellable" because statutorily worthless. a very wise tack.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, sellable. with the property.
asciilifeform: ( other detail re orcs -- initially, was possible for serfs to move at certain times 'day of xyz saint' etc. then phased out. )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform knows slightly moar re how serfdom was phased in in ru than out west. was 'staged' process, and got going in earnest under peter, who decided to create gigatonne of newly-enobled henchmen (modernize , fleets, etc) and then faced q 'how to give'em peasants'
mp_en_viaje: what idiot decides he wants to do is always fucking stupid.
mp_en_viaje: notthing to do with 'pressure', everything to do with imbecility of the "working man".
mp_en_viaje: this was tried for like 2-3 years, then king came out with soil binding and gag orders.
asciilifeform: but yes, in marxist cosmography is supposed to have 'given labour teeth by cutting pressure'
mp_en_viaje: killed like 2/3 of the workforce ; as a result the fucktarded peons started agitating about how tyhey should get to choose where to work, get more wages etc
mp_en_viaje: you recall the black death ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: plox to expand re the plague if got time
asciilifeform can picture this.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, if he's dumb enough to do that, he'll be dumb enough to get her a ring on laywaya too
mp_en_viaje: spend same ~5 bux on a 3 hour campari, except doesn't have to get fat ass off couch. sits in car.
mp_en_viaje: it delivers a "young dude with a car" at their door. which is what the orc female dream is anyway. now they don't have to go to club.
mp_en_viaje: the ~only practical function of the "taxi" apps is they're disavowed dating apps for the liberated dumb cunts posing as careerwomen
mp_en_viaje: but whatever, this is a point experimentally estgablished during the fucking plague, a good seven centuries ago : permitting the plebs to contribute in ANY WAY to the formation of the price of their own labour destroys the economy
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform took ride in coupla dozen 'ubers' etc , talked to the wheel-turners , found that most of'em have day jobs in bureaucracy somewhere, it's an after-hrs gig
mp_en_viaje: then idle hands make devil's work, because he only works 1/10 of the workday he deskills
mp_en_viaje: they "feel like suckers" when working for "less than the max", because obviously. then they get 1/10 the work, like fucktarded romanians.
asciilifeform: 'uber'ist is , last i knew, req'd to buy new auto erry 3y !
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's 'furniture-fueled furnace capitalism' -- offloads cost of purchase (and they want the driver to buy it, ideally, via their credit service) & maintenance of the auto , on the driver , removes ~all 'fat margin' so price wildly fluctuates
mp_en_viaje: it encorages the broken mental processes of the plebs, in any case.
mp_en_viaje: eh, where's the trilema piece where i discuss the retarded whores doing "fantasy football" in their head, judging "how much X Y or Z '''should get'''" based on how much this one chick allegedly once got ?
mp_en_viaje: which sounds like smart capitalism on the face, but in practice only drives idiocy, because
asciilifeform: ( nor would have imagined that there'd be demand for 'kommunalka' cabs, where some rando d00d can end up inside with you -- why not get into the train then ?? -- but apparently this yes also ! )
mp_en_viaje: actuaklly, they do this insane thing where the price can vary significantly.
asciilifeform: i would not have imagined that there are people who 'i'ma take the cab if its costs 15.00 but not 15.50' but apparently they must exist somewhere
asciilifeform: the 'uber' & related chumpatrons, also appeal to the ~penniless by precomputing the price ( and offering to seat randos for cutting cost in ~half) , so apparently slowly killing traditional cabs.
mp_en_viaje: it's not dispatch, it's excel windows in space, they "manage". wtf manage ?
mp_en_viaje: dispatch doesn't even have two way link anymore
mp_en_viaje: today, they're worse than their weight in fungus.