asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: e.g., addition in Z.

asciilifeform: one problem.

asciilifeform: as in, for all time.

asciilifeform: i believe that it is possible to actually solve a problem in a permanent way.

asciilifeform: i suspect that we are not going to agree.

asciilifeform: a tool for reusing timeless pieces.

asciilifeform: nope.

asciilifeform: trinque: #include <name> is bullshit. #include <HASH> is a reliable tool.

asciilifeform: phf: it was specifically labeled as a dangerous toy. for the reason you described.

asciilifeform: phf: in that sense absolutely

asciilifeform: phf: this is correct.

asciilifeform: pop yer favourite text editor, and pick favourite vtron (i recommend mod6's) and play.

asciilifeform: i also recommend experimentation.

asciilifeform: as mircea_popescu describes, with '#include <idiocy.h>'

asciilifeform: THIS, if it existed, would be certain doom.

asciilifeform: you can't specify a 'all of asciilifeform's works' as a v-antecedent !

asciilifeform: v as we have it offers NO mechanism for 'and this here file is the longest chain of all of asciilifeform's patches forever'

asciilifeform: nothing that happens after that can possibly affect his proggy

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he stops it by taking SPECIFIC HASH, of specific one of my patches! as his antecedent.

asciilifeform: what planet have you lot been living on

asciilifeform: srsly

asciilifeform: phf: but we DON'T '#include tinyscheme', we include PARTICULAR HASH OF PARTICULAR SNAPSHOT

asciilifeform: we never include 'word openssl'

asciilifeform: trinque: v is specifically about not doing this

asciilifeform: how ?

asciilifeform: unlike the idiot 'linux world' include

asciilifeform: when someone builds on my particular patch, i can never in the future move anything 'from under him'

asciilifeform: but it does.

asciilifeform: think !!

asciilifeform: it has no hash !!

asciilifeform: their include is BLIND

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we are never in any danger of having ~this~ 'include'

asciilifeform: i fail to see the point in pretending that x1, x2, x3, ... xn which are BITWISE IDENTICAL are different entities.

asciilifeform: go, apply. by patching.

asciilifeform: have same bitwise identity.

asciilifeform: idiot cut and paste lies ~explicitly~ by trying to fool reader into 'x1 and x2 differ' whereas they do not.

asciilifeform: for any possible purpose.

asciilifeform: is a total enumeration.

asciilifeform: by stating the motherfucking hash

asciilifeform: it enumerates

asciilifeform: my point is that mircea_popescu is using very blunt stick.

asciilifeform: this does not come from the machine, but from the meat.

asciilifeform: nothing about 'let's cp this 1,000,001 times because mircea_popescu took away #include' compels intelligent rereading.

asciilifeform: reread must be a deliberate, conscious act, not 'hail mary'

asciilifeform: but this kind of thing oughta be done ~with thought~ rather than as strange human sacrifice ritual.

asciilifeform: sometimes 10x.

asciilifeform: saved my skin many times, this did.

asciilifeform: (i compulsively re-read own shit)

asciilifeform: here i must agree with mircea_popescu .

asciilifeform: diffing identical filez by hand - idiocy.

asciilifeform: reading code - necessary.

asciilifeform: the ~necessary~ reactor rod pulling, and not ONE inch moar.

asciilifeform: and nobody can make me.

asciilifeform: i ain't doing this.

asciilifeform: is to NEVER have the idiot duplication of identical shit.

asciilifeform: whole motherfucking POINT of v

asciilifeform: which, if strong, makes it safe in ANY case to '#include' a HASH

asciilifeform: v is as strong as the hash function

asciilifeform: (what kind of proggy would it be, to have only it as genesis.)

asciilifeform: but not the only genesis!

asciilifeform: it uses nothing previously existing, and will be a genesis in any possible tree where it appears.

asciilifeform: 'ffz', item i am working on now, is the finite field integer library.

asciilifeform: i will give example

asciilifeform: imho mircea_popescu is catastrophically missing the point re the genesis thing:

asciilifeform: and stole hamlet on his own ?

asciilifeform: because he had nfi i existed ?

asciilifeform: no need to 'read both'.

asciilifeform: if diff x1 x2 is nil, then NOPE

asciilifeform: then we can see that my item and his have ~same~ antecedent.

asciilifeform: it is worth the mention when somebody else steals precisely same thing (because it was, say, hamlet) and stands a patch on ~it~

asciilifeform: i dun get it.

asciilifeform: how the fuck does it 'break the tree'

asciilifeform: phf: point was to separate 'i found this' from the 'and then i changed x,y,....'

asciilifeform: aha

asciilifeform: testament that 'yes this is what i had on optic disk for last 10y'

asciilifeform: but it is not outside. the signed pedigreed tarball is a vtronic creation (in the respective cases, mine and mircea_popescu 's)

asciilifeform: using what pedigree there actually is - e.g., mircea_popescu's signed pgp tarball - is part of this.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it has to burn with proper petrol, farts are not enough.

asciilifeform: and makes whole thing into a 'trust me plox'

asciilifeform: this obscures its pedigree !

asciilifeform: but ~deliberately~ went from ~pedigreed tarball~

asciilifeform: it was quite ugly !

asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu recall why i did the tinyscheme genesis the way i did ?

asciilifeform: why ?

asciilifeform: and i seriously fail to see why mircea_popescu is barfing

asciilifeform: it joins the party wholly formed.

asciilifeform: tinyscheme did not chain off any previously standing thing.

asciilifeform: elementarily, any patch that sprouts matter out of the aether without affecting anything presently standing.

asciilifeform: dun matter what we call it, there can and often will be >1.

asciilifeform: doesn't have to be mine

asciilifeform: srsly read the code, of ANYBODY's vtron

asciilifeform: ever !

asciilifeform: operator NEVER explicitly does ANYTHING with genesis !

asciilifeform: it isn't ambiguous !

asciilifeform: '

asciilifeform: how the fuck is this 'state of sin

asciilifeform: 2) shiva-part1

asciilifeform: 1) trb-genesis

asciilifeform: graph will have 2 nodes having no antecedents.