118300+ entries in 0.071s
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> but in principle, gear can't produce more heat
than
the electricity it gets. so i expect at some point
they'll start whining about "Gotta get another rack, we can't go over 4kw/per" or w/e
they do. no ? << We have 2.5 kw now, and if we need more we can get a set of incoming power lines for another 2.5 kw. After
that it is
time for a second rack.
BingoBoingo: <TomServo> BingoBoingo: In my experience
the plastic slats are intended
to better maintain hot/cold isle airflow. <<
This is sorta what I figured.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 04:29
TomServo: some! contain no beer at all! strickly Windsor Canadian Whiskey
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 04:13
TomServo: Agreed, I'll admit
the overclocking really
threw me.
mircea_popescu: not
to say we won't rack old school disks someone ships ; but i
think
that's about as far as
that goes.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 04:11 ben_vulpes:
this ftr is what galls me about ssds;
the accelerated deterioration rate.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 04:07 ben_vulpes:
TomServo: i personally run machines for longevity, but i can see why mircea_popescu and BingoBoingo would want
to run
their lowendboxen hot and cram as much into 'em as possible.
mircea_popescu: or, for
that matter, in a civilised house. because how
the fuck would
this work, modernity is built on airflow like
the roman empire was built on running water.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 04:01
TomServo: but
the air between machines isn't moving, right? if not by convection?
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-07#1782314 << well, i'd expect airflow at all
times driven by
the dc HVAC. i dunno you'd want
to buy space in a dc with no internal airflow. i've also never been in one
that had no internal airflow.
then again i've never been in a clean room
that had no internal airflow either.
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 03:59
TomServo: but i've also never racked overclocked servers and would expect no joy
to come from it
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:35 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> holyfuq, konsoomer
towers in racks in dc << Cargo cult
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 03:58
TomServo: ben_vulpes: not sure about any air gap, all
the racks i've seen are pretty pretty
tight
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 03:57
TomServo:
That was my point, I don't see it being worth
the effore given cpu cheapness.. even with
the VAT.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-07 03:56
trinque: anybody here overclocked before?
mircea_popescu: but, in any case, more of a curio/bikeshed
than anything i
think. overclocking isn't likely
to have more
than a 1% if
tyhat impact either way in bbisp affairs.
mircea_popescu: for one
thing,
they don't. and for
the other
thing... really ?!
mircea_popescu: this is a little like saying "hospital's no place for imunosupressed patients,
they should be in
their car, which people keep clean"
mircea_popescu: the idea
that desktop
towers are well cooled is ridoinculous on
the face. i dun
think half of
them are,
tbh.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, i have no clear model in my head of what's going on. but, i expect most load other
than
trb will be apache or something like it. and in my experience higher clock beats more cores once you have more
than 4 or so,
there.
trinque: I
think
this practice persisted legally until quite recently in
TX
TomServo: right! well in northern wisconsin
there are CLASSES of beers in cars
TomServo: I doubt
there is one. Perhaps I misunderstood 'road sodas' when converting
to local parlance.
ben_vulpes: heh i dunno
that i've ever heard a couth name for
the practice
tbh; or any person who'd call
themselves couth engaging in it
TomServo: ben_vulpes: We call
those 'travelers' in my parts. A 'roadie' if you're uncouth.
ben_vulpes: zero likelihood of interdiction with a polite babe at
the wheel.
trinque: "baby, you know
they'll just move out of
the way for it, yeah?"
trinque: lol aha. I've never seen such a polite huge
truck driver as mine.
ben_vulpes: girl is just not going
to rev my shit past 4500, you know?
ben_vulpes: much like
the honda babywagon i've allocated vs
the
three f1 engines a
team's allowed in a season
TomServo: Agreed, I'll admit
the overclocking really
threw me.
☟︎ TomServo: Well, running hard and diddling overlclock settings + babysitting detail are different
things, I
think.
ben_vulpes: this ftr is what galls me about ssds;
the accelerated deterioration rate.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: make 'em someone else's problem, and pay for
the convenience.
ben_vulpes: heh yeah i
think
trinque and i have pretty similar attitudes
towards how
to
treat machines you're going
to run hard
trinque: my main point is
to be ready with a stack of spares if
that's
the strategy
trinque: mod6: customer might. say a set of game servers
that can handle losing a node for a bit. just depends.
TomServo: ben_vulpes: I see also, just
thought it was worth mentioning.
TomServo: I
think
trinque 's point about hardware import difficulties is important
to consider when stressing
the gear, is all.
ben_vulpes: TomServo: i personally run machines for longevity, but i can see why mircea_popescu and BingoBoingo would want
to run
their lowendboxen hot and cram as much into 'em as possible.
☟︎ trinque: makes sense, I won't dispute
that part.
ben_vulpes: what,
they heat up, crack
their pcbs, shut down. run your fans,
this won't be a problem.
ben_vulpes: i ain't justifying shit, i'm saying
that i'm not concerned about
the health of
the rack from a few hot boxes.
TomServo: This seems like strained reasoning
to justify overclocking for what I see is a minimally appreciable gain.
ben_vulpes: but in
theory, if you want
to wank over
the
thermofluids
ben_vulpes: well, no, we're
talking like sub-1% contribution
to overall cooling
trinque: making
them better
than if
there were no servers on either side?
ben_vulpes: if we don't neglect it, i'd expect entrained flow in
the same direction as
the convective cooling flux, eg from front of rack
to back
trinque: this is a fun exercise, but
the air gap is not sealed between
the units
ben_vulpes: air currents within
the DC might actually ruin
this, but for
the sake of
the gedankenexperiment, let's neglect
those for now
ben_vulpes: that argon between
them doesn't move;
the viscosity of
the gas keeps it locked in place and it acts as a superior insulator
to
the glass.
TomServo: but
the air between machines isn't moving, right? if not by convection?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: heaven help us if
the machine bodies actually drive a) because someone isn't cooling adequately, and if
the gap is sufficiently small (as anyone with dc experience can attest) we'll probably have "stagnation" conditions, where
the air is not actually circulating between
the machines
ben_vulpes: the concern is convective heat
transfer between servers. for
that
to happen
there must be a) great enough gradient of heat between
the machines and b) enough space between machines for air currents
to get moving
TomServo: but i've also never racked overclocked servers and would expect no joy
to come from it
☟︎ ben_vulpes: since we're doing
thermofluids
tonight...
ben_vulpes: i've never racked machines
that squealed on insert, you?
TomServo: ben_vulpes: not sure about any air gap, all
the racks i've seen are pretty pretty
tight
☟︎ mod6: lol of course
they do
TomServo: That was my point, I don't see it being worth
the effore given cpu cheapness.. even with
the VAT.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: intel calls
that an "unplanned restart"
these days lol
mod6: sure, got maybe a bit more
throughput, but
the
tradeoff was certainly not worth it if not, for instance, gaming.
trinque: heat's one issue, general system stability another. who's going
to fiddle with BIOS voltage settings?
ben_vulpes: and heaven help
the person who lets
their box get hot enough
to
transfer heat radiantly
ben_vulpes: moreover it'd be what, mostly radiant with a bit of conductive
through
the air gap between servers, which can probably be approximated as stagnant and a good insulator
ben_vulpes: i know but if
the convective flux is adequate
there really shouldn't be
that much heat conducted from machine
to machine
trinque: ben_vulpes: wasn't
thinking of it, just heat
through
the metal case
ben_vulpes: cooked, yes, but you hoover from
the aisle in
the front and dump into
the aisle in
the back. so long as everyone's dumping out
the back, nobody should be sucking exhaust gases.
trinque: mircea_popescu: in re: cores, depends what you're running. most of my existing servers are many separate services doing
tasks
that don't block each other, whereas if running
trb it's doubtful
the
thing benefits from even one extra core, except insofar as
the rest of
the OS's doings get shuffled off
to it.
trinque: also given
the difficulty of getting parts on site, might want
to optimize for longevity,
then CPU cycles
trinque: yeh, gotta keep in mind
that rack slots are narrow, and you're being cooked by your neighbor on
two sides
TomServo: If not full
throttle, is it really worth
the effort compared
to
throwing in another system?
TomServo: If overclocking, why not go full
throttle?
TomServo: I've not kept up-to-date, but in my understanding of successful overclocking is often dependant on specialized cooling systems expected
to be in a mini or full
tower.
TomServo: I can likely order gear as well, but I don't expect
that will be a problem.
mircea_popescu: eh,
there's cpus
that are made for overclocking. such as
this one. it'll run fine for years, if kept cool.
TomServo: mircea_popescu:
that's
true, but you should have plenty of warning before needing
to consider
torching your gear
lobbes could possibly swing
the ~600. will keep eyes
tuned
to logs
mircea_popescu: not clear yet, intuitively
there's a ~600, a ~1.5k, a ~4k and a ~9k chunk. but we see.
lobbes: mircea_popescu, I may be able
to order something, depending on price (any gear needed under $500, say?). I've been meaning
to convert some more fiat into coin anyway
mircea_popescu: well, if you're stuck with an overloaded rack for
the few days
till you get
the other one up for instance, it's nice
to know you've got a 20% afterburner you can run on.
TomServo: Seems
to be begging for heat and reliability issues when
the goal should be reliability.
TomServo: I
think you're on
the right
track not paying
the price premium on
the latest and greatest and eating
the power.