116500+ entries in 0.072s
mircea_popescu: amusingly, much in
the vein of "all lugs
tumble
the same in
the lug
tumbler" point from before,
this is ~almost exactly~ how it works in fiatlandia
too. a week's worth of hairpulling and lost nights and so on.
mircea_popescu: hey, is
this actually you lot's first start-up note stage
thingee ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 is it open for others ? or are you happy
to keep it narrow for now ?
mod6: I hope
that it would be an initial amount
that will get pizarro off
the launch pad.
mod6: aha,
thanks for
the guidence here.
mod6: It did me
too, but I figured what he meant from 11 BTC
total.
mod6: So, let's see: 5 BTC from mod6, 5 BTC fom asciilifeform, 1 BTC from
The Bitcoin Foundation = 11 BTC. One board seat for each of
these; mod6, asciilifeform, and
The Bitcoin Foundation. ben_vulpes, and BingoBoingo are
to be given Special Stock Warrants for
their work.
ben_vulpes: "mod6 and ben_vulpes have extended 5 BTC of
The Bitcoin Foundation's capital in credit
to further start-up and operating costs associated with
taking over
the ashes of BISP and bringing a new venture
to profitability. asciilifeform will match
the Foundation's capital 1-to-1. "
ben_vulpes: anyways, i appreciate everyone's
time in refining
the structure.
ben_vulpes: well
that's a doubling of extant capital commitments, but
that works for me.
mircea_popescu: and with
that,
there you go : have mod6 and asciilifeform each pay in 10 btc, have
the foundation give out 1 btc also, making a
total of 11 ; give
tbf and
the equity partners a seat each for a
total of 3 ; have ben_vulpes and BingoBoingo get stock warrants monthly on some sort of agreed upon scheme and
there you go.
mircea_popescu: and
to ben_vulpes
that you will not allow
the natural and understandable desire of strive avoiding
to guide you into nonsense, but will firmly commit
to clearly and openly discuss problems.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: gullible fool
that i am, i will even allow myself
to be seduced into living
the 5th point ; on conditions :
to asciilifeform
that he principally sticks
to a
timekeeping and scheduling method of his design, at
the bare minimum
the proverbial chess clock and corkboard ; and subsidiarily
that he gets
the girl
to
take a (~candid!~) shot of him with
the instruments sometime
this week. give
the girl a camera, have her
take a bunch,
mod6: Well, chew on
this a bit. Let's
think all
this
through.
ben_vulpes: mod6: i can get
this drafted with plenty of
time for asciilifeform
to review before his evening visit
mod6: That may not be a bad idea. However,
there's maybe a lot more
that needs
to go into creating something like
that. Not sure what our
time-horizon is here...
mircea_popescu: and yes,
this is what would probably be a fine solution here, you
taking warrants. if
the equity value goes up you're obviously entitled
to profit ; and otherwise... well... more work
to do.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i hadn't disclosed
that yet, at
the
time of purchase it seemed appropriate
to disclose in
the monthly
ben_vulpes: yeah certainly. for my learnings, how did you price chet's ssw's in
the early days of s.mg? by having known her forever?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-19 17:06 mod6:
That seems accurate
to me as well, as
the foundation owns
the server assets.
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying your work is worthless ; i am however saying it's a difficult
to price category.
mircea_popescu: yes, but
this is an iffy point in
that it's hard
to guess how palatable
this'd be
to
the equity.
ben_vulpes: i'm actually
thinking
to capitalize by working on
the
thing; could easily eat 3.5 btc of my
time in
the first year alone
a111: Logged on 2018-02-19 16:51 ben_vulpes: not unreasonable, and it does clean up
the ownership structure significantly.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i
thought it was more of a "umm... more of
these ? ya ok."
mod6: The smile on
the llamas face was best btw.
ben_vulpes: it's
the most important
thing one can buy with bitcoins dontchaknow
trinque: * mircea_popescu obviously said it better
than
trinque: ben_vulpes obviously said it better
than I could have.
the foundation's interests are in bitcoin; couldn't be more broad a justification for involvement in society as
the chairs deem.
mircea_popescu: in other words,
there's no need
to provision for "impartially" ahead of
time, as you have a (working, proven) mechanism
to realise
that jit.
mircea_popescu: quite literally, "measure
to so and so is coming before pizarro board ; ben_vulpes is voting x, mod6 is voting y, foundation should vote z according
to so and so considerations..."
mircea_popescu: mod6 nothing prevents you from discussing it publicly. "here's
the issue before
the board, here's what i
think foundation should do, here's what ben_vulpes
thinks it should do,
this is what we'll be doing, comment"
mod6: Can I represent
the foundation from one seat, and
then myself from another?
ben_vulpes: mod6: you and i decide who
to stick on it
mod6: Here's
the
thing, if
the foundation gets a board seat, who is
to represent it impartially or what not? In
the given case where I have 1 board seat from say 1 BTC, and ben has one from 1 BTC.
mircea_popescu: the reason you made
that a draft is so it's drafted upon neh.
mircea_popescu: so restructure
the deal, have
the foundation put in a bitcoin, get a seat for it, put a coupla bitcoin each of you, get a seat for it each, or whatever's convenient.
mod6: What I
think is
that it maybe clearer, better for Pizarro
to have private investment -- especially since
the
two co-chairs are also going
to be involved in either "management" or "board seats".
mircea_popescu: but i also
think it's sensible for people involved
to contribute capital privately.
mircea_popescu: i don't
think it's undefensible in
the least
to say "well, item x has
to work, we can't deny it capital, so we're
there in
the front line". which is kinda what it came
to.
mod6: trinque:
to me, it's not
that expendature is inappropriate,
that's not what I'm saying. I
think
trying
to help Pizarro get off
the launch pad is a great
thing for
the Foundation
to do.
mircea_popescu: so
there's necessarily nothing wrong with foundation being equitably involved. now, how much... well,
this is more of an open question.
a111: Logged on 2018-02-19 16:45 mod6:
there might be a better way
to go about
this without
the Foundation's involvement. Like I said before, I could have just put up my own coin for
this. Just again, as discussed yesterday,
the
thought was "Can
The Bitcoin Foundation do something here
to help Pizarro, for
the Republic and
the betterment of Bitcoin as a whole?"
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-19#1784999 <<
there is, at
the very least, a defensible strongline in
there : "since
the foundation is entitled in 1 per
thousand from all income in
tax, it is necessarily acceptable for
the foundation
to invest 1 per
thousand of capital in any and all ventures, as a matter of principle.
that chairs may opt
to eschew
this for many is a practical matter at
their disposal".
☝︎ mod6: You are
to be manager,
there are
to be greater
than one board memebers.
trinque does not
take a position on whether it was appropriate in either direction
mod6: mircea_popescu: I
think
the offer on
the
table, from ben_vulpes, was for him
to be "manager". Am I correct, ben_vulpes?
ben_vulpes: mod6: i
think you meant "board members" upstack, not "managers"
ben_vulpes: trinque: i maintain
that
the expenditures
to date have been appropriate and legitimate, but am compelled by mod6's argument
that actually embroiling
the foundation in
the ownership of Pizarro complicates it unnecessarily
mod6: trinque:
This is a very good question, and so far, other
than Pizarro, adds up
to 1 renewal of a domain name.
mircea_popescu: mod6 you can't have multiple managers.
there has
to be a guy
that stops
the buck.
trinque: curious what you gents
think would be an appropriate foundation expenditure
mod6: That seems accurate
to me as well, as
the foundation owns
the server assets.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: so ftr i've disposed of 1.16578854 BTC of
the foundation's capital
this month; 0.8 in purchasing mircea_popescu's debt and 0.36578854 in servers owned by
the foundation; so
the sum
to which
the foundation's piggy is involved is 0.8 BTC
mod6: I also still plan
to, if I can get a few minutes here,
to publish V 99993.
mod6: ben_vulpes: yeah,
the SoBA is gonna be a bear
this month indeed.
ben_vulpes: it's gonna make
things complicated on statements
this month but i can handle
that
mod6: I'm gonna give mircea_popescu, diana_coman, BingoBoingo, asciilifeform, phf, and others
time
to catch up and weigh in, if so desired.
mod6: Let's see where
this conversation goes.
mod6: I
think I could be persuaded
to do
that.
ben_vulpes: your public-relations work
to date has been pretty valuable, for one.
ben_vulpes: i'd rather you invest
those 5 btc rather
than simply give
them; it doesn't make a great deal fo sense
to 'give' a notionally someday-profitable entity money and furthermore i'd rather you didn't just wash your hands of
the whole
thing if i can convince you
to stick around.
mod6: Let's discuss, and see what makes
the most sense.
ben_vulpes: not unreasonable, and it does clean up
the ownership structure significantly.
☟︎ mod6: Of my own coin. (sorry, didn't mean
to end
the sentence ahead of
time).
mod6: What I'm offering, if it is more palatable, is for me
to return
the Foundation's money and make
that whole again, and instead offer up a 5 BTC private / or gift
to Pizarro.
mod6: I'll admit
that how it is with
the 1-to-1 matching and so forth with asciilifeform, seems
to be a bit of 'bubblegum+shoestring', which, let's face facts, it is.
This is somewhat of an emergency put
together entity.
mod6: When
thinking about how
to re-structure, or re-word some of
the Pizarro Charter, it becomes way simpler, and easier with
The Bitcoin Foundation out of
the equation. And probably would provide for a better structure, a more sound structure, perhaps.
mod6: And I believe
that answer, passing
the smell
test, was "Yes, indeed it can." "This is a useful expendature of
the monies."
mod6: there might be a better way
to go about
this without
the Foundation's involvement. Like I said before, I could have just put up my own coin for
this. Just again, as discussed yesterday,
the
thought was "Can
The Bitcoin Foundation do something here
to help Pizarro, for
the Republic and
the betterment of Bitcoin as a whole?"
☟︎ mod6: So reading
through some of
the comments, questions, concerns rasised by mircea_popescu, and diana_coman, I started
thinking yesterday
that maybe -- since
there are specifically hard-to-draw lines between mod6's role as Foundation Co-Chair, ben_vulpes's role as Foundation Co-Chair and
their roles as ``managers'' or ``management'' in Pizarro ...
mircea_popescu: 16358287111888959696680983838486196055353569.308466978, for
the mathematically slow.
mircea_popescu: from
the civillian pov, "yes, it's all
the same". meanwhile 1% summed over
ten
thousand iterations, which is what civilisation is, comes
to... guess.
mircea_popescu: the problems of governance is
that you're stuck choosing between 50% loss 55% gain and 48% loss 56% gain sorta deals.
there's no "solutions".
mircea_popescu: a mix. what can it possibly produce, what do you
think
this is,
the cartoons ?
mircea_popescu: "which is why he sent his henchmen
to break both his arms and each finger ; it has nothing
to do with impudently ignored warnings."
mircea_popescu: ah. yes,
there was a year and a half long utter shortage of amphetamine. what can you do.
mircea_popescu: but, for his wasted "coin", back in a day before coin was even invented, yet wots still existed, mp also knows as a factual, rather
than guessed matter, what all is down
that road.
mircea_popescu: for his sins and youthful naivite, mp sided with
the exceptionalism view way
too long.
mircea_popescu: , let alone working anywhere
today". yes, sure, and he's doing 16 doses a day and he butchered
two people, lawds mercy.)
mircea_popescu: (and, for
the "missing out on career" random (and consequently almost guaranteed
to run into grief) potshot : it so happens, like many other
things do happen,
that mp was in charge of a
town at a point in its history when an amphetamine epidemic hit
the (very, VERY competent, poorly equipped, badly overworked) medical staff.
there was a lot of "x ?! x is beyond brilliance,
there isn't a y surgeon like him mentioned in history