109900+ entries in 0.777s
nubbins`: bitbet is
a scam site if this stands, unequivocally. i dare you to declare otherwise, and if you so choose, please PGP sign it for us all
nubbins`: "sorry guise, turns out, as you ALL KNOW, i made
a mistake that would be interpreted as fraud if it stands"
nubbins`: and mp is spraying bullshit like
a fountain
nubbins`: fwiw, i also think mp is
a piece of shit, but it was easy enough to idle in here and fleece some money out of him now and again. that time's obviously passed since all of his ventures are either spinning wheels or outright fraud shops
nubbins`: don't conflate strong feelings with rage, i'm having
a great day :)
nubbins`: asciilifeform if we're calling spades spades, i think he's
a piece of shit, but one has to wonder what weight MY opinion holds in such matters
nubbins`: like
a small child holding
a hot wheels shouting "vroom!"
nubbins`: put some wet food on the other side of the hoop and dole out
a few head scratches
nubbins`: asciilifeform i'll venture
a guess that it's the same way mp trains derps to stick around and parrot the party line
nubbins`: asciilifeform i waited until adulthood to start raising hell, nobody listens to kids. but i smell
a story coming
nubbins`: trinque not
a shot, merely stating facts
nubbins`: didn't even have to pay bingo to stick around, just bought him
a domain and some text-only
trinque: I don't get these shots at mod6; he wrote up
a fine guide to building
a gentoo...
nubbins`: yep. and
a quick "you got it buddy" to mod6 and "you're really good at typing things up, you're wasting your talents at the loading bay" to dpb and you've got two more sets of undies smelling like mp's dick
nubbins`: or mod6, by all accounts
a great guy, head of TRB, almost quit in the first week because he couldn't get
a gentoo install up and running.
nubbins`:
a less-loquacious parrot regurgitating half-understood conceits
nubbins`: they don't bicker much, and alf's
a smart guy
nubbins`: oh, that type of drill, not
a power tool
PeterL: asciilifeform
a scammer drill? to see if we call out an negrate scammers in
a timely fasion?
PeterL: If I send
a txn to the addresses listed on
a bitbet page, will that expense be put on the bitbet books too?
nubbins`: i guess we should put his lordship to
a vote in
a few days if he hasn't resolved things satisfactorily
nubbins`: maybe he needs
a loan. hanbot seems like she buys lots of stuff
nubbins`: asciilifeform seems odd behaviour for
a wealthy man, no?
nubbins`: so we can explain why A1 was held for so long before being mined, and we can explain why A2-A4 vanished, and we can explain why mp thought that sending B was
a good idea, but we now see that it was simply not
a good idea because mp did not understand the payment protocol as well as he thought he did, and now we've got
a 17 btc fraudulent expense on bitbet's ledger
kakobrekla: 'replace by fee' is
a new thing that has not been ported
nubbins`: and
a desire to not propagate shit tx's handily explains why A1 was retained but not relayed by nodes, agreed?
nubbins`: kakobrekla seems like you've got
a good understanding of the likelihood of each explanation
kakobrekla: i dont think this will be
a problem. notice the 'double-check' guy from comments.
nubbins`: "i have to push my own tx because bitbet can't afford
a tx fee"
nubbins`: asciilifeform the "what instead" has been stated to be "use
a fee of 9 cents" more than once.
PeterL: nubbins`> go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation << if you look at the timestamps, it was just
a couple hours before we started complaining, which was pretty much as soon as I got around to reading the article in question
davout: asciilifeform: do
a double spend, manage to get
a conflicting tx mined
nubbins`: and "we" jumped to the conclusion because there's
a not-insignificant amount of worry in the ecosystem right now about chinese monopoly, so it's an easy lie to sell
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 13:36:34; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make
a block.
adlai is fairly certain bitbet has been "mixing bets" for ~ever. isn't this how the whole "bitbet as tumbler" story was supposed to work? ie, the blockchain tells
a different story than the addresses listed on the site
assbot: The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema -
A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1LamWrs )
adlai: nubbins`: it does change the picture from "fraud! abdication! blood of tyrants!" to "mp made
a mistake when acting as coin-handler for
a corporation"
nubbins`: and there's
a name for an operation that pays cashouts from more recent takings
nubbins`: adlai i don't think that mixing bets like salad paints
a prettier picture.
nubbins`: even if it'd worked, he still would have been introducing
a private expense to bitbet's books and then paying himself back from
A* inputs, which still breaks the listing agreement
PeterL: but in any case not send txn B until txn
A has been resolved
nubbins`: don't make me dig up examples of bets that took
a week to resolve
nubbins`: it's not like prompt payouts have ever been
a priority
PeterL: or double spend the outputs (and get
a miner to include) before sending txn B
nubbins`: PeterL i think it's fairly obvious that customer payouts are zero priority, given the 0-fee payout attempt followed by
a payout embargo
dooglus: I suspect that's the client's fault - used to be that high-priority inputs meant you didn't need
a fee
PeterL: maybe just never send 0fee txn, because customer payouts should be
a priority?
nubbins`: maybe mp shouldn't have put
a personal expenditure on bitbet's books!
nubbins`: maybe bitbet shouldn't be sending 0-fee transactions when there's
a massive mempool backlog!
nubbins`: maybe we should open
a node cartel!
nubbins`: hey, i bet and have
a node too
PeterL: <mircea_popescu> by this measure, there's
a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure. << it only takes one, and I bet and have
a node, therefore it might have been me too
nubbins`: can't simultaneously invent complicated lies and hold
a convo
mircea_popescu: by this measure, there's
a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure.
PeterL: well, there is probably
a large overlap between bettors and people running nodes, since these are people who have an interest in the bitcoin network working so they can get paid
nubbins`: "to
a non-overlapping set of nodes" -- aha! he's found an out that he hasn't used yet -- the nodes weren't overlapping now, see?!
mircea_popescu: let's move on to the next step. THEN, MP broadcast A2, which HAD
a fee. to
a non-overlapping set of nodes. the disjunction of the two sets had
a perfectly valid txn they... also didn't broadcast, because magic reasons.
nubbins`: dooglus if you're wondering, mp ignored me in
a fit of rage yesterday
nubbins`: yeah, how could
a non-bettor have
a watch-only address in his wallet?
mircea_popescu: well... if it's not
a bettor then "for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them" doesn't stick anymore.
nubbins`: yes, that's right, payouts are on indefinite hiatus because paying 9 cents tx fee isn't
a solution
nubbins`: ^ just to put everyone at ease even though payouts are on indefinite hiatus, here's
a 10 btc house bet
nubbins`: that's probably
a stupid assumption
gribble: no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill
a hat.
nubbins`: ;;echo no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill
a hat.
nubbins`: why, it'd instantly be included in
a block!
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 16:24:11; mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is
a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.
nubbins`: he sends
a special packet and the node dumps its mempool, json format
nubbins`: and you wonder why i have zero interest in "doing up
a blog post" or whatever masturbatory navel-gazing bullshit is somehow better than explaining it real-time
nubbins`: ^ this is what you'll get as
a response no matter how well thought-out your explanation is
mircea_popescu: congrats, you've formed
a theory about
a selection of the facts on record.
nubbins`: still not
a word re: blatant fraud
mircea_popescu: with any luck it'll be something like "miner cartel, what
a ridiculous idea - not like the anon derps involved are
a) known to be idiots and b) have certain incentive do do exactly this! moreover, the much simpler explanation is that... uh... uh... mp conspiracy! and scam! and fraud! and he doesn't care about bitcoin! and i'm an idiot that'll show him!!11"
mircea_popescu: PeterL this statement would be
a lot less ridiculous had the "simplest explanation" been actually formed as the article even encourages the reader to do!
mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is
a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: as if everyone's
a little bit everything and it all evens out or something, dunno.