log☇︎
109200+ entries in 0.07s
britknee: all good ty 👍
mircea_popescu: britknee right he is, somehow slipped through the cracks. sorry for the delay ; but it's done now.
TrixxC: hi am here to register for tits
mircea_popescu: !!up TrixxC
asciilifeform: averages don't help much, if it's '0 on whole week but certain death on tuesday noon'
avgjoe: ok thanks, so after someone rates me deedbot allows to up me on demand?
mircea_popescu: what's it help you to know it's "0.1 bits per tb ~on average~"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to elaborate
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it can't be a debit like that, because the main unknown is the approach.
asciilifeform: avgjoe: it means that you had no ratings.
asciilifeform: avgjoe: you should be able to self-voice now.
avgjoe: hello, can i ask why deedbot doesn't send me the challange to solve? instead it tells me that i should not up myself
asciilifeform: ( 1 possible variant formulation of this : you want to prove that it is not possible to quickly skip over any portion of key space )
asciilifeform: so what you'd want to prove is that there exists ~no~ method more effective than brute guess, for $system.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 18:10 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797142 << understand, the discussion here is re cryptographic hardness, not mathematical hardness ; as discussed otherplaces in the logs, the mathematical notion of difficulty is "what's the absolute hardest case this problem can yield", because they want to offer maximal flop guarantees ; cryptographically it is kinda opposite : what's the LOWEST difficulty a problem in this class may yield
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797536 << we may have had the thread iirc, but : cryptographic 'lowest difficulty' is inescapably statistical, considering that there is a nonzero and calculable probability of guessing a key ( under any system which is not otp, i.e. correct key is somehow distinguishable from the space of possible rubbish key ) ☝︎
BingoBoingo: Now, there's also "alfajores integrals" where a birdseed paste is smashed between two birdseed wafers, but those cost ~70 pesos whereas alfajores verdaderos costs 20-30 pesos
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: That think was the commercial item that defines the standard
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: that thing was way too way over the top
asciilifeform: right now 2 types of cipher are known -- otp, and errythingelse. only re otp is there a mathematical statement of any substance ( i.e. it is degenerate case, leaks 0 bits )
asciilifeform: ( what would 'getting somewhere' look like ? how about a general theory, or even ~study of particular case, like aes~ re how many bits of key are leaked per, say, TB of ciphertext )
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> i have been seduced into liking sugary delights! << It's scarcely been more than a month since a fractional alfajore gave you sugar shock
asciilifeform: ftr i got ~nowhere re: a proper approach to cryptohardness.
mircea_popescu: . because they want to put a MINIMUM floor in. so to a large degree mathematical discussions of hardness are not cryptographically useful.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797142 << understand, the discussion here is re cryptographic hardness, not mathematical hardness ; as discussed otherplaces in the logs, the mathematical notion of difficulty is "what's the absolute hardest case this problem can yield", because they want to offer maximal flop guarantees ; cryptographically it is kinda opposite : what's the LOWEST difficulty a problem in this class may yield ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:13 zx2c4: but even hardness of factoring... how hard is this actually? what number theoretic advances are right around the corner?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797136 << approximately zero, in that case, for good fundamental reasons to do with... the structure of theoretical possibility. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 16:12 zx2c4: things like RSA boil down to number theory problems. but that's in a sense scarier than the set of problems that good block ciphers tend to boil down to. because it means that those primitives have lots of _structure_, and generally structure is something that can be exploited. just look at all the amazing and fantastic attacks on things with structure. so just boiling down to a [currently considered] "hard problem" doesn't provide as much solace
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797132 << this counterstructure argument is actually quite strong ; may indeed be stronger than the proponent realizes. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: re the aleph ? nfi
asciilifeform: it resembles 'nano ecc' which at 1 point asciilifeform tried to port to trb ☟︎
mircea_popescu: no, and compiled to 40kb, it's clear from this and plenty other signs the dood has the right ideas in his head.
asciilifeform: to be fair, the thing isn't even obscenely lengthy, esp for a robo-generated proggy. ( it remains the case that i dislike c, and also ecc; but these are orthogonal concerns )
mircea_popescu: these are yet too high level matters to be practically approached by this "here's an impl" method.
ckang: 'pull request are always welcome' :) as they say
asciilifeform: why the author stopped where he did, and did not unroll ~all~ of the loops, i do not presently know
mircea_popescu: the line 332 explosion is a fine example of this as any could be had.
asciilifeform: ( the pipe stays full )
asciilifeform: i had example of this back in august, of comba.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797078 << this looks almost like a Very Desperate Man (tm) writing say pcb wiring constraints. ☝︎
ben_vulpes: i was halfway expecting to see the classic machinegeneratedliquishit objections
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 15:48 zx2c4: our two x25519 C implementations (32bit and 64bit) are actually generated by theorem proving software, so that we're sure they dont contain any errors
ben_vulpes: in other modern scotchguardlifeamericana, these "100% cotton!" napkins are clearly coated with some heinous anti-absorbent "nanotech". yes, works to wipe crumbs off toddlerface but holyfuck is aggressively and annoyingly nonabsorbent.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all the Order deny,allow Deny from all Allow from x thing does is lock out by ip ; it's not even generated by wp itself ; it can be implemented any way, iptables, csf, whatever.
ben_vulpes: aok so the Order/Allow can probably be swapped for the 'modern' Require styles
mircea_popescu: it redirects missing file references into index.php ; that's how it does the url replace thing.
mircea_popescu: RewriteCond %{REQUEST_FILENAME} !-d << this sort of thing.
mircea_popescu: not afaik. i linked you to a snippet lessee
ben_vulpes has yet to put rubber to road on this, still researching
ben_vulpes: huh danielpbarron mentioned to me that it writes the permalinks into .htaccess, this is not so?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes wp doesn't actually care how .htaccess is implemented ; only that it works.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: the .htaccess files included with/generated by mpwp include the `Allow` incantation, which is not a thing in apache 2.4; trilema purports to run on 2.4.16; can the Order/Allow incantations be replaced with the 2.4-style Require?
mircea_popescu: generally the alfajor as a commercial item is two wafers, ddl in betrween, whole dipped in hard chocolate.
ben_vulpes: experiments from the kitchen, im sure more variants with chocolate will appear as soon as i mention the idea
mircea_popescu: they have chocolate alfajors tho, is yours just ddl ?
mircea_popescu: hey, i didn't think i even liked girls, as a 14yo. people get strange ideas in their heads.
ben_vulpes: sounds tasty
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you should see the britt chocolate covered macadamia nuts.
mircea_popescu: ckang too soon to say.
ben_vulpes: well they are a far cry from the mango gelato of mircea_popescu's haremfactory but goshdarn these alfajores are magical with coffee in the morning
mircea_popescu: anyway, guy got a bitcoin, meaning he can put however many more hours into the thing you're using, so wins all around.
ckang: still trying to soak it in
ckang: lol i try and connect people ;)
mircea_popescu: word. you're building quite the diplomatic reputation for yourself, you know that ?
ckang: hey nice glad to see zx2c4 made it in
asciilifeform: zx2c4: you can come back any time, you have voice now.
zx2c4: alright, ttyl guys
zx2c4: ooo scoped pointers. thats nice
mircea_popescu: zx2c4 and the good news is, linus permitted ada modules before.
asciilifeform: the use of pointers, for instance, is discouraged, and their migration between scopes is prohibited
zx2c4: i need to head out for a bit now
zx2c4: hah i like that
asciilifeform: zx2c4: there is some quite 'fascist' compile-time checking. most noobs to the lang, spend a week or so getting their proggy to even build.
asciilifeform: if you switch the runtime checks on, you get a ~50% speed penalty in practice, vs 'naked c'
mircea_popescu: actually, most crap is not even permitted. see all the pragmas.
zx2c4: so most checking is runtime instead of compile time then?
asciilifeform: ( gnat , the ada compiler, is based on ordinary gcc )
asciilifeform: zx2c4: performance is difficult to compare; if you remove various safeguards, you get ~same binary as equiv c proggy would have produced on same ver of gcc.
mircea_popescu: but that's related to how they can't even exist in c.
asciilifeform: there is absolutely no justification for the continued use of c, aka overflowlang, aka heapabuselang, since... oh, 1985.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-12 17:20 zx2c4: you guys have invented lots of things here
mircea_popescu: zx2c4 the good news is that i am now finally in a position to explain what EXACTLY is meant by "terrorist" : that feeling in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-12#1797417 when shit keeps coming and coming and coming up. what is it, if not spiritual terror ? ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: and add to this, that it has an actual paper standard, and minimal 'implementation-defined' rubbish (tho sadly not zero)
asciilifeform: i'ma cheat and cite my own article, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 : '... in a heavily-restricted subset of the Ada programming language — the only currently-existing nonproprietary statically-compiled language which permits fully bounds-checked, pointerolade-free code and practically-auditable binaries. We will be using GNAT, which relies on the GCC backend.'
zx2c4: linus has never been so happy about other languages in the kernel. for example, he rejected a C++ layer many years ago
zx2c4: i dont have enough exposure to ada to say for certain. how come?
zx2c4: unlikely that'd make it upstream if i did wireguard that way, but neat that that's possible
asciilifeform: ( it is however presently unclear to me why the entire ciphrator has to live in kernelspace. granted the packet-thrower perhaps must. but why whole thing. )
asciilifeform: zx2c4, mircea_popescu : it is quite trivial to build a kernel mod with gnat
mircea_popescu: that's a perl impl of a v tool by mod6 ; everyone is invited to make their own v tools.
zx2c4: it's written in C because its in the linux kernel, which is written in C
zx2c4: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zx2c4's thing ? nope, notyet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did we ever establish why he wrote the thing in c ?
mircea_popescu: the idea with it is that patches must be a) clearly assigned to a responsible key and b) well read. actually, not putatively a la ers's trillion dead fish eyes.
asciilifeform: zx2c4: this isn't v per se tho, it is a graphical viewer for same
zx2c4: you guys have invented lots of things here ☟︎
mircea_popescu: sheit. phf what happened to clickable patchgraph!!1
mircea_popescu: anyway, as to the other one : v is the republican... well many things, but also works as a versioning system. here's a pretty picture to help the notion along : http://btcbase.org/patches << you can select from the drop menu to the left, see vaqrious trees extant. you can click on any item to see the patch it represents.
mircea_popescu: and saying "multiples of k : 0, 8, 16" is NOT an enumeration of "similar things". 0 is dissimilar to everything else.