log☇︎
105300+ entries in 0.682s
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i will attend to this as soon as i get home.
nubbins`: asciilifeform i still need your mailing address
mircea_popescu: davout i don't mean it as an attack or anything. and the question of exploring the negative is open now and will remain open until spec.
nubbins`: i'll leave you guys to your non-reality-based distractions, feel free to ping me if mp decides to address his fraud in any fashion.
davout: now i'm unsure how to further go into negative bitcoin definition
davout: mircea_popescu: well, it also "doesn't not work" in the sense that I sometimes have got transactions stuck because I'm a cheap zero-fee jew, that I got unstuck by issuing a double-spend
mircea_popescu: i mean... miners can just... ban it.
asciilifeform: at any rate i am broadly unconvinced that network sybil octopus needs any kind of miners other than a small share of standard hashrate.
mircea_popescu: davout that's what i mean by positive. yes, "it works".
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425886 <<< well, I *am* running a node in the sense that I receive and broadcast transactions (with the occasional double-spend) just fine ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i conduct own 'intel', and yes, i don't have a radiotelescope like mircea_popescu's, only eyes.
nubbins`: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171492 @ 0.00053048 = 90.9731 BTC [-] {5} man, i think my zinger triggered that one
mircea_popescu: so i guess you do balance, after all !
mircea_popescu: it is also the first time i've seeing you err on THIS side ever before.
mircea_popescu: but i dunno how to carry that particular discussion in a way that'd dispose.
davout: asciilifeform: i do not claim I know where it came from, but do note that 'not being relayed by most nodes' is absolutely not conflicting with 'some dude rebroadcast it because he felt like it'
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying what you're saying is provably impossible. i am saying to my eyes - it is very improbable.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i've been thinking about your theory ever since, but i don't credit it asciilifeform. for one thing, it's unstable. seriously, supernode and miniminer ? it'd get torn apart.
gribble: omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract
nubbins`: ;;echo omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract
mircea_popescu: davout i don't think you take my meaning. the situation that you imagine is, "hey, whatever, summertime and a bunch of us are at the beach". the situation in reality is, "a moroccan clan and some fat frenchies at the beach". guess how likely you are to a) find out the price of dried fruit and b) find out that you aren't finding out the price of dried fruit.
davout: mircea_popescu: if everyone's actually the same node, broadcasting to one node is actually broadcasting to everyone, and it follows that it should have relayed properly. I guess it can also be the sign of your connections all actually being to the same sybilling node
davout: thinking about it, I interpret the fact that A1 did not (on first attempt) get relayed to my node as indicative of nodes *not* being merely facades for some sort of 'super-node'
asciilifeform: nubbins` i think you already did this earlier
mircea_popescu: i had been watching. this, and many other things.
mircea_popescu: i've been watching. this is 1.5 to maaaaybe 2.
asciilifeform: i can easily see that this pistol might shoot 1% of the time the trigger is pulled.
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425817 <<< the "sybil testing" part is not documented in the qntra piece or did I miss it? ☝︎
asciilifeform: it is half of why i believed that a cartel exists.
asciilifeform: but i have to say, it is not supported by the incident described in the article, and so this is giving folks indigestion, fwiw.
mircea_popescu: i also said as much at that exact time, in this very chan.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i assumed that you had nonpublic intel that led you to say this.
nubbins`: "one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail" lololol.
mircea_popescu: it is an intricate discussion, and one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail, but on the basis of what i have seen, it is my considered opinion that at the time in discussion, the miner cartel was running a ~half hour block delay thing.
asciilifeform: (miners ~are~ misbehaving, as, e.g., i witnessed with my lee sedol bet. but this is separate.)
mircea_popescu: it is unclear what the help'd be at the present time, however. i see exactly no signs of any of the observed behaviours discussed in teh qntra piece anymore.
asciilifeform: i'm not a bbet shareholder or for that matter anything at all, but am willing to help
mircea_popescu: i'm willing, on general goodwill, to help. i am certainly not willing to underwrite an open ended personal support for some venture i happen to manage.
davout: mircea_popescu: i like to check stuff, maybe there's stuff to learn if i find out they somehow were relayed to my nodes at some point
nubbins`: the most plausible scenario i can think of is that, like dooglus concurred, a shit-fee tx took forever and then got relayed
dooglus: davout: curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution << when mining block N, I have my pick of all the transactions broadcast while block N-1 was the newest block. some of those will have decent fees. transactions broadcast while block N-10 was the newest block that haven't already been mined are probably not very attractive to mine now. so why is block N including so many transactions created 10 blocks ago and so few created 1 block ag
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is obviously always possible. except it'd be bitbet, raqther than mp. i've been otherwise unmolested throughout.
davout: now, i'm quite curious to actually see A2...4 with my own eyes, and check those too
davout: ftr i checked my own logs, and what they say is that my node heard about A1 around march 1st
asciilifeform: nubbins`: the most plausible scenario i can think of is that mircea_popescu's network has been boxed in by sybils.
nubbins`: i also flatly disbelieve that mp sent A2, A..n to completely different nodes, because it's extremely, extremely relevant and didn't come out until his original argument shit the bed
davout: asciilifeform: i have nfi, but absence of proof isn't proof of absence
mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone had anythong intelligent to say that got buried in the spew, feel free to restate. i'm not wading through that pile of idiocy.
davout: asciilifeform: i don't see how one could conclusively assert that A1 has not been relayed by the node one originally broadcast it to
nubbins`: suppose i run two nodes, one a member of Nk and one a member of Nm. As long as my nodes are running proper sanity checks on each other (i.e. passing tx's between them), which obviously they should be because i'm not running SPV nodes, mp's "mathematical" argument falls apart at the seams
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been lifting the rocks for a while. but i do it with sapper's spade , but as i understand you did it with bbet's foot ?
nubbins`: i guffaw loudly at the continued refusal to discuss 17 btc bitbet fraud
mircea_popescu: let's just say that i lifted the rock and i saw every type of heresy in there.
mircea_popescu: anyway. to my eyes this is specifically and precisely said in the qntra piece, but w/e, more passes never hurt anyone, i guess. except if the passes are beatings or something.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu>asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be. << memory failing you once again
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be.
asciilifeform: how is nubbins` 'tenuous' ? i thought he was a serious stockholder, long before i even came here.
asciilifeform: i have nfi, and might be a shoemaker.
asciilifeform: and i think nubbins` has gone to drink
asciilifeform: see log. jurov, kakobrekla, and i all wondered wtf mircea_popescu thought he was doing when he programmed a1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is there anything more than random derp of tenuous association with b-a has a total meltdown when he realises that b-a is not fiat, the republic not a democracy and i don't give a shit about "people themselves" ?
nubbins`: i've made promises that are more thorough than this thing
nubbins`: no kidding, i can only fit one broken contract in my head at a time
asciilifeform: did i ever even once publish a broadcast exactly on time ?
nubbins`: asciilifeform i haven't read over s.nsa listing agreement in depth
davout: am i missing something ?
davout: dooglus: any interpretation for the data you posted? i fail to see anything meaningful to conclude from it
nubbins`: lol why i gotta encrypt?
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: i gotcha ;)
BingoBoingo: <nubbins`> BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece? << sign/encrypt a document and pass it to me somehow
nubbins`: [18:26:01] <+nubbins`>pete_dushenski no hard feelings, i swear!
pete_dushenski: i'm not qualified to say what it means !
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: lol is 'piece of shit' a term of endearment on your end of the globe ? i have a hard time keeping track of all the different culture nuances in this vast and expansive country of ours
asciilifeform: i side with tradition and honest ram vendors vs. consistency and scummy hdd makers.
nubbins`: pete_dushenski no hard feelings, i swear!
asciilifeform: but i have misplaced the link, and cannot find it in the logz
asciilifeform: and now that i think about it, phf had a block disasmer in commonlisp.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i do not. but this'd be a good beginner project
pete_dushenski: i haven't the patience to compare every listed tx. perhaps someone else has script or program for this
nubbins`: BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece?
dooglus: I saw MP's "a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour" and was sceptical
asciilifeform: i have to agree with mircea_popescu on this one , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424756 ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424706 << this got lost in the noise and i would like to come back to it. ☝︎
asciilifeform: i will read.
nubbins`: i won't read it, fwiw
danielpbarron: i'm baking an article about this for my blog, fwiw
nubbins`: mp shrugged too, sux for everyone i guess
danielpbarron: well i don't masquerade as a finance expert while making my shoes..
danielpbarron: i'm a shoe shipper hehe
asciilifeform: i think i am what mircea_popescu terms a 'shoemaker.'
asciilifeform: i have no assets and no net work, i just like maths.
asciilifeform: recall, i am here for slightly different reason than other folks, i'm not really an 'assets' fella
danielpbarron: as to whether the listing agreement was violated, I hope for the sake of myself and other shareholders that bbet isn't liquidated at the specified price of 0.00001 btc per share
asciilifeform: jurov: i have nfi, i admit that i do not typically follow the subject
jurov: and we all know discussing what mp should and should not do is in vain, but he's not alone in there. i'm looking forward to see how kakobrekla follows with this
trinque: I butter mine on both, use as a transportation device
nubbins`: danielpbarron as is your perogative; however, in a battle of trust vs facts, i'd rather stick with facts
danielpbarron: i'm not saying you haven't made some sound points nubbins` , but I trust Mircea more than I trust you, and that's that.
asciilifeform: which i do not think was meant here.
nubbins`: i don't know why