asciilifeform: disagreement was wholly philosophical.

asciilifeform: again, if davout breaks his trb, and signs off on a b0rk3d proggy, it does not 'pick my pocket or break my leg', mine will still work.

asciilifeform: and in fact recall, i asked for trb, because i wanted The B00k

asciilifeform: fwiw i do not hold to 'trb 4evah!'

asciilifeform: which is why the clock on replacing trb, does run.

asciilifeform: even if pedo did not groom this gurl from birth, there is still ~bottomless well of bugs in openssl, boost, linux, etc.

asciilifeform: no one knew that the thing would take off.

asciilifeform: so it is not that nsa was absent, no. it is the theft incentive, that was.

asciilifeform: but bitcoin was ~worthless.

asciilifeform: for all i know, nsa was there on day 1.

asciilifeform: i thought this was basic.

asciilifeform: and if abandoning this -- may as well replace whole shebang.

asciilifeform: and the only countermeasure is to keep the changes to grandfather's pistol, minimal, reviewable, 'fits in head.' and to retain old mechanisms when practical.

asciilifeform: it is , largely, why we have v. because every line of post-2012, bitcoin-touching, code, is guilty-until-proven-innocent of plotting to steal.

asciilifeform: like pre-hiroshima Pb.

asciilifeform: categorically.

asciilifeform: pre-2012 bitcoin code is a thing.

asciilifeform: ditto firms lifting old, ww1, ww2 battleships.

asciilifeform: al schwartz wrote about the roofs, iirc it was. semiconductor firms replaced cathedral roofs all over europe, for 0 cost. just to get the valuable pre-hiroshima metal.

asciilifeform: heartbleed also sat 'without trouble'.

asciilifeform: this proves nothing.

asciilifeform: (did we do this thread..?)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you remember the old leaden church roofs ?

asciilifeform: (this was in the last thread re subj, a while back)

asciilifeform: and my jaw dropped

asciilifeform: iirc jurov , for instance, specifically said 'hey you can go and use this python wallet'

asciilifeform: but i would like to know, if it had.

asciilifeform: perhaps it did not.

asciilifeform: and i would like to know ~where~.

asciilifeform: because clearly our priors diverged somewhere

asciilifeform: my objection is not 'davout Broke Trb oh noez!!' but to the thought process that might lead an otherwise literate d00d to contemplate a 'reference' that lacks vital organs as a valid thing

asciilifeform: ditto trb-minus-mempool.

asciilifeform: ditto trb-minus-any-miner.

asciilifeform: but to rewind: i do not object to davout mutilating his own personal trb however he likes. however i do object to calling a trb-minus-any-wallet a 'reference implementation'.

asciilifeform: bridge -- 20.

asciilifeform: a reasonable house has 7+x over-strength.

asciilifeform: killing gavin's remote backdoor is not comparable, it was a necessary part of 'first do no harm'

asciilifeform: for the most part, asciilifeform did not touch any of this code. reasoning was, that it is part of the historic record.

asciilifeform: (i am speaking strictly of provably-unreachable routines. there are others that could be snipped, with some work, without affecting semantics)

asciilifeform: take gnu profiler, run, you will find it

asciilifeform: btw since folx are itchy to snippety-snip, i will note, there is actual dead code in trb

asciilifeform: 'modularize wallet' is a man-year.

asciilifeform: signature is 5min work yes.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: implementing sane wallet is easily a man-year.

asciilifeform: burn down your house ~deliberately~, if you must, not by playing with matches as 3 y.o.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because if folx must ruin bitcoin via discontinuity ('you can always dig up historical code laters'), non-exhaustive pseudo-reference implementations, etc. i'd rather they understood what they were doing.

asciilifeform brb, teatime

asciilifeform: therr is a whole dream-trilema that asciilifeform sometimes reads in sleep.

asciilifeform: or mebbe i dreamed it.

asciilifeform: iirc there was a mircea_popescu parable where someone attaches a parasite to a wife and somebody else objects to removing, because 'how do you know where it ends and other it begins'

asciilifeform: lel

asciilifeform: i killed those right after baking the genesis ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what alert messags

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: existing code is privileged omfg what part of this is hard to grasp

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: panda fur gasket on there for a reason!

asciilifeform: no golden toilet either?!

asciilifeform: in my extensive practice as an absolute nobody -- i also did not. but supposed that someone -- could.

asciilifeform: the necessity mathematical object was not afaik ever discovered.

asciilifeform: so could not have failed.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is impractical to make as drawn here.

asciilifeform: then if you find one, you nail it down by claiming , signed,

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as gedankenexperiment, imagine if we went 'primes above 1000^10000 are now coins'

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not necessarily.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'planet x, provably mine, now belongs to ben_vulpes ', signed, asciilifeform

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: same as now.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: picture 'coins as planets, discovered planet? you have a coin' approx.

asciilifeform: but i can't seem to turn it up

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had a thread a while back re 'fragless' coins

asciilifeform: aah like the electroluminescent shirts.

asciilifeform: does it use gurljuice for battery electrolyte?

asciilifeform: no?

asciilifeform: cheapola -> folx find 10,001 uses.

asciilifeform: happened, for good or ill, with cpu cycles ('why the fuck there is a computer in my flashlight' thread), plastics, LED, etc.

asciilifeform: consider the discovery of electrolytic aluminum refining.

asciilifeform: if alchemy tomorrow -- would all get plated in au.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not really oversupplied, there are quite a few unplated contacts in use.

asciilifeform: (incidentally, though unanswerable, would be interestig to learn what the purely industrial worth of gold would be.)

asciilifeform: going strictly on industrial gold for this example

asciilifeform: but notice, folx do collect the gold. it is +ev.

asciilifeform: in same respect, it would likely cost quite a bit to collect gold contacts from every old cpu in every junkyard.

asciilifeform: aah yea

asciilifeform: so at max fragocalypse, one might have situation where to move 100 satoshi, occupies a block

asciilifeform: aah

asciilifeform: so we can say how many can live in a block.

asciilifeform: but i'd like an actual byte constant per.

asciilifeform: noshit space in O(N)

asciilifeform: ?

asciilifeform: incidentally what does a tx to consolidate N addrs having 1 satoshi each, weigh, in terms of N

asciilifeform: they can use pieces of eight, dubloons, rubles.

asciilifeform: whothefuck cares about roaches.

asciilifeform: noise, not info.

asciilifeform: how is '1 satoshi per cockroach' an improvement vs '10 lords with 10'000 btc ea.' .

asciilifeform: neh?

asciilifeform: then comes hitler and glues all back together,

asciilifeform: why they cannot be defragged ?

asciilifeform: but why in this case is it so, if defrag tx takes up no moar space than the original fragging tx

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand it, a defragging tx weighs exactly same as fragging tx , though

asciilifeform: as per mircea_popescu 's sketch

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'gen' meant as signer also

asciilifeform: btw i found toslink modules for ~35 cents ea.