1035900+ entries in 0.737s
assbot: ZIP.A [500@0.95BTC] (since: 2012-07-29) paid: 2.76743 BTC. Last price: 0.51 BTC. Capital gain: -22 BTC.
Total: -217.23257 BTC. (-45.7%)
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EskimoBob: it's
the people, not
the instrument :)
EskimoBob: you have no need for it in
this model
mircea_popescu: the issue here is
tat most of fiat is rotten
to
the core and unusable.
EskimoBob: copy with pride! no need
to waste
time on inventing wheels
mircea_popescu: which, probably, will be very contorted in fiat
terms.
smickles: mircea_popescu: what you should do is allow it
to automatically purchase and run from algorhithmicaly determined hosting services while also setting up all
the manual operations in automatic form.
Then, release it like one of
those 'lucky lantern'
things
mircea_popescu: i believe we need
to proceed deductively based on btc principles and come up with functional instruments
EskimoBob: it's not
that big deal - unless you get greedy
mircea_popescu: i don't believe we need
to
try and replicate fiat instruments in btc.
EskimoBob: yes, in
this case you need
to
take
the risk but you can plan your exposure for a starting month in options market and start accumulate capital
to run it properly
EskimoBob: the moment you plan and finance it
the other way around, you will have a good bond buyers market
EskimoBob: i
think your model is "upside down"
mircea_popescu: which is why most people send
towards
the end of a month.
kakobrekla: and another feature soon
to be revealed
mircea_popescu: if you send money on
the 5th of august you can ask for it back on
the 20th
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu, i added mpex dividend payments
to assbot
mircea_popescu: well, not really. and any way you can't recall
them during
their current month.
smickles: mircea_popescu: is
there any way
to find out if
the funds are going
to (or likely
to) be used?
mircea_popescu: smickles
this is already
there, people can just notify
they want
their money back
mircea_popescu: but i have done my math and i
think i am large enough
to push
this
through.
smickles: mircea_popescu: suppose
the 'bonds' people subscribe
to were done with a multisig
transaction some how where
the lender could recall
the funds before
they are used (or marked for use) by mpoe?
mircea_popescu: in part because of scam assets like ppt, in part because
the boneheaded idiots on
the forum are playing
ther citizen dentist
EskimoBob: but you need money
to make money :)
mircea_popescu: it never used more
than 10k iirc, and i'm significantly above
that, personally.
mircea_popescu: EskimoBob : again, i could easily just use my own capital
to finance all of it.
mircea_popescu: the btc market is by its nature in a position where
those liniar assumptions are harmful.
EskimoBob: you use real bond or issue shares
to finance it
EskimoBob: yes,
this is what I mean. But lets not forget, it can grow
too. And
this is what you do: you figure out what you can manage per month
EskimoBob: ok, so
this can not be
to hard
then
smickles: if mpoe actually held some capital, it wouldn't have
to buy money
EskimoBob: oh lets not start
that BS especially in a case, where you buy money for more
than you have
to :)
EskimoBob: pass a motion
to accumulate some for operations
smickles: EskimoBob: down due
to loss of
timevalue of money
mircea_popescu: seeing how miner bonds
trade at arround 30-35x
their dividend and mpoe seems more like 300x
mircea_popescu: but i
think a laeger share of
the price is due
to
the company/prospects
than
to
the direct dividend.
mircea_popescu: if i wanted
to run mpoe as a private
thing i could have continued
to do so, indefinitely.
EskimoBob: is you businesmodel
to pay for money you can get for lot less?
mircea_popescu: not holding on
to money has at least
the very good quality of reducing risk.
smickles: i
think
that's against
the business model
EskimoBob: you need
to figure out how
to accumulate some wroking capital and stop sending it out
to share holders and what not
mircea_popescu: EskimoBob
the way mpoe is set-up it's a 0 capital venture. it has no capital of its own.
EskimoBob: do I understand you correclty
that you need
the funds
to cover your options?
EskimoBob: dud, you write calls whn you hope
the market drops
EskimoBob: puts and calls or is
there someone else, who writes
them (seller)
EskimoBob: mircea_popescu: do you wriet
the options?
mircea_popescu: copumpkin yeah buit companies have something
to go on. i scarcely do.
EskimoBob: and now we are at what I
told you earlier - bond is not a good way
to finance stuff like
that
mircea_popescu: how do i plan for
the future when
the very essence of
this future is
the unknown ?
EskimoBob: maybe you sell some at discount
to secure larger part and
those who wait, get shittier price
mircea_popescu: how can i get capital for august 5 on august
the 31st ?
EskimoBob: so you set
the date, coupon and maturity and price
mircea_popescu: man. i only need what capital i need in august on august
the 31st
EskimoBob: there is no nee dto invent
the wheel
EskimoBob: you sell all bond out at once - and depends, what was
the demand, you rise or lower
the price
mircea_popescu: this is a big problem in btc cause it opens me up
to being charged of various malfeasances.
EskimoBob: you set
the rules when bond will be sold at discount and when at premium
mircea_popescu: copumpkin i actually am
thinking of
taking
the 5% rate out completely, and let it freefloat.
EskimoBob: you can discount
the bond or if
they get oversubscribed, sell at premium
mircea_popescu: and i don't want
to, cause imo
that's
the main value of
the entire
thing, it allows me
to have a mpbor
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: oh,
there might have been competition, but not as much as
there might have been if you hadn't
tied it up :) since many potential competitors might abstain from participating, just because of
the risk, even if
they were willing
to offer low rates
mircea_popescu: EskimoBob if either of
those go i'd have
to
take out
the "pick your own %"
EskimoBob: and
this part: not getting paid If i did not use it" has
to go
too :)